Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

[Krom]

2) İt doesnt matter 2 hours or 3 hours, only matter is always same strategy and we cannot pull back our troops once they enter the war.

We have been thinking about that, maybe maps with prebuilt basic houses will be more popular? (Store+Inn+School+2xQuary+2xWoodcutters+Sawmill)

[thabes]

2) İt doesnt matter 2 hours or 3 hours, only matter is always same strategy and we cannot pull back our troops once they enter the war.

We have been thinking about that, maybe maps with prebuilt basic houses will be more popular? (Store+Inn+School+2xQuary+2xWoodcutters+Sawmill)

Then
Total player-time:
21 years, 220 days, 19 hours one of the longest play, but there are almost no change about the units and houses. Ok I am volunteer to draw what I proposed . So please tell me which program I should use to draw them?

best

[Krom]

@thabes: A. First of all we need to decide on what is needed. Some small requests are at our contributions article at google-code. But if we talking about new mechanics - we need to preliminary balance it. B. Second of all we need to agree on what exactly do you want to draw (if you want it to be included into Remake that is)

[thabes]

@thabes: A. First of all we need to decide on what is needed. Some small requests are at our contributions article at google-code. But if we talking about new mechanics - we need to preliminary balance it. B. Second of all we need to agree on what exactly do you want to draw (if you want it to be included into Remake that is)

Ok I understand there is long way to go. I want to be included KAM remake and start with ship dock if it is ok for you_?

[Krom]

Okay lets start planning. Create a new topic and lets collect feedback on the idea, sketches, reference pics, plans and roadmap there.

I suggest starting with a roadmap. Let's say we have a ShipDock, whats its immediate use gonna be without boats/ships? I guess none, so next item in queue - first boat, guess that will be a scout-boat, that just floats around and explores terrain. We can always add an archer to it, so that will be our basic level.

[Lewin]

I hate to be a Negative Nancy but I don't really think ships fit in KaM:
1. Maps are too small, maybe 256x256 maps could be enough but generally they wouldn't work on most maps.
2. KaM is all based around lines of defence, if I can land my ship behind your village and attack from there it completely removes that, you'll have to tower all around your village/along the coast and put troops there... defending would become impossible because you'd need troops everywhere.

New features don't always make the game better, they need to fit in with the game style/balance. Can you imagine having ships in the campaign missions? I can only think of a few where there's enough water, TSK 7 for example. But then you could sail and land on the enemies island and attack them from another direction, I'm not sure it would work.

I think ships would have to be an addon/mod with new maps that have enough water. And even then would it really add to the game? I already find I have too much to think about and do while I'm playing KaM, ships would just mean even more tech trees to manage. The KaM tech tree is already complicated. I'd rather see new terrain types/transitions, map objects, etc.

Maybe we can design it into the game balance as an optional feature/addon, but I'd hate to see your work go to waste so I think the idea should be planned accepted before you put a huge amount of effort into it. Although I'd be interested to see your work/sketches

[thabes]

I hate to be a Negative Nancy but I don't really think ships fit in KaM:
1. Maps are too small, maybe 256x256 maps could be enough but generally they wouldn't work on most maps.
2. KaM is all based around lines of defence, if I can land my ship behind your village and attack from there it completely removes that, you'll have to tower all around your village/along the coast and put troops there... defending would become impossible because you'd need troops everywhere.

New features don't always make the game better, they need to fit in with the game style/balance. Can you imagine having ships in the campaign missions? I can only think of a few where there's enough water, TSK 7 for example. But then you could sail and land on the enemies island and attack them from another direction, I'm not sure it would work.

I think ships would have to be an addon/mod with new maps that have enough water. And even then would it really add to the game? I already find I have too much to think about and do while I'm playing KaM, ships would just mean even more tech trees to manage. The KaM tech tree is already complicated. I'd rather see new terrain types/transitions, map objects, etc.

Maybe we can design it into the game balance as an optional feature/addon, but I'd hate to see your work go to waste so I think the idea should be planned accepted before you put a huge amount of effort into it. Although I'd be interested to see your work/sketches

Thanks for the encouragement Krom. Are there any drawing programs to do it_? I see the point there is long way to go.

2) for the lewin

İf we want to do brainstorming I realize that you already against all of the ideas here. Almost everything new units houses almost impossbile to add.
I want to know your ideas except map modifications and changing menu or music.

İt is just a game man. We want to make it more enjoyable. Even though you said it is unreal, I suggest you to check vikings or middle age civilizations for the Ships have been used almost 3000 years. İf KAM period is not so old, I think the ships are inevitable.

Also, although stone walls are inappropriate how about wood walls like Robinson crusoe made it in his island ?

Ofcourse ships should be used in appropriate maps. Think about red alert 2 deezire mod. They always improve something. units , tanks, prism towers, But we are still jumping in the same place.

[Krom]

In KaM units and houses were made in 3D first, then artistically improved. Maybe you should make a sketch in 3D and then polish it in 2D editing software. Once again I stress attention on thorough planning - it should precede the work. We have TPR houses but we did not included them because they are imbalanced to the game. Shipyard should not repeat their fate.

@Lewin: I perfectly see your point and I do agree with it mostly, but little experimenting and fresh artwork won't hurt )

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

İt is just a game man. We want to make it more enjoyable. Even though you said it is unreal, I suggest you to check vikings or middle age civilizations for the Ships have been used almost 3000 years. İf KAM period is not so old, I think the ships are inevitable.

Wrong. Lewin is talking about the game, not the actual history. Lewin's point is more important, since every implemented feature has to fit the game, or it will affect the balance in a bad way.

Why don't you reply to things he said? You don't think the gameplay will completely change when ships are added?

I agree with Lewin.

[Shadaoe]

I don't see a way for ships to be included in the Remake and work well.
A nd the worse thing : you can't do fishing ships, since there's already a house, with sprites, lines of codes .. which are already done, so ships would be for : transport and naval battle. That's a bit limited, also it would cost a lot of resources, new citizens (seamen ?), a complete change in gameplay and a lot of new things to take into account for maps.

[Lewin]

@Lewin: I perfectly see your point and I do agree with it mostly, but little experimenting and fresh artwork won't hurt )

Of course not, it would be cool to see new artwork I just don't want artists to feel disappointed if we have to refuse to implement it because it hasn't been planned/fitted into the game.

[Remake 2012]

Ships in the remake.
- You have to make a new map, in which the presence of ships will not affect the balance. (can be done)
- However, I started the introduction of units from TPR: Rogue, Rebel, Vagabond, which would be the weakest units in the game. In this way, one could build a village that could not have farms. A player that focuses on wine, fish. In this way the army could have done more. (Without doing pigsties could recruit 4 units!)'m Not talking about iron units.

Together, we can talk over the balance of the "new" units. Why hide the unit? Introduced town hall and there allowed the recruitment of new individuals. In this way one could forget about building Barracks . Who would bother? And it was in that unit TPR? So what!

[Kridge]

Okay here we go.

Please Read:
This is how I think this could work out. It is only my opinion. I want to share this with you, to have this discussed and maybe 'inspire' other ideas about this topic that might be an even better solution. Maybe you think these are stupid ideas. Well, that's totally fine with me. But I would like to ask you to give constructive feedback instead of:
"Your idea totally sucks"
"Are you stupid, that would never work"
And so on. What I also would like if you think it doesn't work, is giving examples. Examples help illustrate your point of view a lot better. A picture can say a 1000 words, but so can an example. If you don't understand something, please ask clearly what you don't understand, and I will do my best to explain.

My opinion about the units:
1) I don't think we should abandon those units.
2) I don't think we should abandon the Town Hall.
3) I think we could train the vagabond in the barracks, and make it just a little bit faster, but weaker then the Scout.
4) Rogue Weapon could be made in the Armory Workshop.
5) So this Rogue could be trained with a recruit and the weapon from the armory workshop.
6) It should have the same protection as a Militia, and have around the same attack as bowmen. BUT, way less accuracy.
7) Barberian and Warriors could I.M.O. better be used for player vs barberians map styles...
8) ... Or in the future for Player 1(army) vs Player 2(barberians) type games.
9) Rebel can only be trained in the following way:
9) a] You have to defeat and overtake an enemies village.
9) b] You then can select the enemies troops (EDIT: I meant citizens here.).
9) c] You can send them into the barracks.
9) d] They are trained to Rebels.
9) e] Training done: Rebels avaible.
10) Warehouses can be build everywhere, without needing roads. Because this way, you can take over hostile towns.
11) To prevent citizens scouting: Maybe make them go back as soon as they take damage, or are targeted. This way they cant explore nearly enough to make it useful.
12) Siege units:
12) a] Battering Ram: Why the hell not. Make them in the Siege Workshop, ship them to the Barracks by Serf, plant a recruit in there and go attack some buildings. Massive damage on buildings, and "pretty strong" against ranged units. No magic involved.
12) b] Catapult: No idea, that is not discussed before.
12) c] Ballista: No idea, that is not discussed before.
12) d] Ships: So far, I have not a single idea which would make this work.

Thanks for your time.
Kridge / Rhaenon

[thabes]

very nice ideas! Go for it!

[kamil]

Well - I like water as a resource but in KaM there is really no reason for it. Unless you made stables, pig farms ect require it... or if you ever made a beer food. But realistically there isnt as much call for water.

I believe that the well (water) fit to the stables, pigs, horses, and a bakery. This would be an additional element of economy, which could have a positive impact on the game.

ps what about the hunter? venison sausage ...