Managing maps and saves downloaded in lobby

[Lewin]

Hi guys,
This is one of the last things on the todo list before we start beta testing the next release. We need a solution to the current situation where downloading a map/save with the same name as a map/save you already have will require you to overwrite the existing one, and also your maps list fills up with maps you downloaded once but don't actually want to play again.

I think I've come up with a good solution, but I want to see what you all think:

Saves:
As I see it, there's no reason to ever keep a downloaded save. You just want to download it, play it, and after that you don't care. If for some reason you want to keep it, just save it from within the game after it starts (saving in MP only saves on your own computer now, previously it used to save on everyone's computer so you could load without transfering).

Therefore for saves I suggest a downloaded save is always stored under the name "downloaded" (downloaded.sav, downloaded.bas, downloaded.rpl) and if it already exists it overwrites without confirming (since you don't care about the save from the last time you downloaded one in the lobby).


Maps:
We create a new folder for downloaded maps separate to MapsMP. Lets call it MapsDL. When you download a map in the lobby it goes into this folder. If the map name already exists, it renames it to something like "Golden Cliffs (2)" (so the lobby will not need to prompt you about overwriting existing maps since nothing is ever overwritten).

However, the contents of the MapsDL folder is not shown in the regular map lists in game (lobby and map editor), since often you don't care about keeping a map you downloaded from a lobby (fills up your maps list with unwanted maps). Instead, there is a "Manage downloaded maps" menu somewhere which shows you the contents of MapsDL (including a column for the date/time that you downloaded it). Then there is a button you can click to save that downloaded map into your official maps folder (MapsMP), letting you save it as whatever name you want (and letting you overwrite an official map if you choose to). There's also a button to delete maps from the download folder.

This means that you can jump into any lobby and click download without worrying about filling up your maps list with some random map that you don't care about, and you don't have to worry about overwriting an official map if the host has modified Golden Cliffs without changing the name. However, perhaps after playing the map you decide "I want to keep this one", then you can choose to save it.


What do you think? I'd like some feedback before I implement it.


Minor after thought: Rather than saving as "Golden Cliffs (2)" if the map already exists in MapsDL, everything that gets save into MapsDL has its checksum/hash append to it, but the game doesn't show these. So if you browse to MapsDL you see "Golden Cliffs.a73e8f0c" and "Golden Cliffs.8b40cb71", but when you go to "Manage downloaded maps" in-game you will only see two maps with the name "Golden Cliffs", however the date/time that they were downloaded will be different.

[andreus]

Agree.

Saves: if you need a replay you can save the game before quitting
Maps: I like ManageMaps menu and checksum idea - no need to overwrite existing maps, and you can always choose a version which you need (Delete button for other versions is not problem now ;D )

[Tiank]

Sounds good to me, I'd like to see how it works in game .

[RandomLyrics]

i think it will be great if well have type folders MapsMP > MapsEco, MapsTac, MapsSpec, and MapsDL(temporary folder). Number of maps will grow fast, keeping all kind of map in one folder will be unwisely

[Ben]

As I see it, there's no reason to ever keep a downloaded save. You just want to download it, play it, and after that you don't care.

For the record, I just want to say that I disagree with this. I keep all saves from games that I play, but also I download many saves from other peoples' games. There are many reasons for doing this, but to summarize I'll just say that it is for educating myself

[sado1]

Then there is a button you can click to save that downloaded map into your official maps folder (MapsMP), letting you save it as whatever name you want (and letting you overwrite an official map if you choose to).

We've had an idea before, to keep official maps separate from downloaded ones, and to not let people overwrite the official ones. What is the reasoning behind letting them do so in the end? This is an open invitation to destroy maps imho. Of course, they will be saved as Map Name.checksum, but still, it kinda encourages people to save a destroyed version of a map as default. I'd much rather see them make an effort to change the name, too. Also, if someone has such a map chosen in the lobby, a random fellow who joins and sees the "Download" button will likely just think it's a new official version of said map, which is beyond unacceptable... So, in short: please, don't let people overwrite original maps so easily.

[Lewin]

As I see it, there's no reason to ever keep a downloaded save. You just want to download it, play it, and after that you don't care.

For the record, I just want to say that I disagree with this. I keep all saves from games that I play, but also I download many saves from other peoples' games. There are many reasons for doing this, but to summarize I'll just say that it is for educating myself

Why not just save the game once it starts, or before you quit? Or do you mean you join a lobby, download the save, then leave the lobby and keep that save for later? I doubt that many people will want to do that, and if they do they can rename the files "download.sav/bas/rpl" to something else so they don't get overwritten the next time they download a save.

Then there is a button you can click to save that downloaded map into your official maps folder (MapsMP), letting you save it as whatever name you want (and letting you overwrite an official map if you choose to).

We've had an idea before, to keep official maps separate from downloaded ones, and to not let people overwrite the official ones. What is the reasoning behind letting them do so in the end? This is an open invitation to destroy maps imho. Of course, they will be saved as Map Name.checksum, but still, it kinda encourages people to save a destroyed version of a map as default. I'd much rather see them make an effort to change the name, too. Also, if someone has such a map chosen in the lobby, a random fellow who joins and sees the "Download" button will likely just think it's a new official version of said map, which is beyond unacceptable... So, in short: please, don't let people overwrite original maps so easily.

I doubt many people will believe that some random has a new official version of a map, people are generally distrustful on the internet. Plus it won't overwrite their "official" version unless they go to "manage downloaded maps" and specifically say to overwrite it with the version they downloaded. I doubt many people will bother, they'll just say "ok, lets play the modified version this random is using" then download it and not bother to overwrite the original after playing the game (remember that "manage downloaded maps" will be on some other menu like the map editor page, not in the lobby itself), unless they really like the random's modification more than the original, in which case it's their choice.

We have recently added a delete button to the map editor menu, so you can delete any maps from the list (which could already be done pretty easily by browsing to the KaM Remake folder). So even if we don't allow overwriting existing maps with downloaded ones, people can just delete the existing maps. Plus there are heaps of ways to modify the original maps if you want to, such as editing them in the map editor, browsing to the Remake folder and copying files around manually, etc.

The only way we could actually prevent modifying the original maps is if we hard code the checksums of all those maps into the KaM Remake EXE and refuse to load them if they have been modified. Which seems ways over the top.

[dicsoupcan]

Well you got a good point there, but is it possible to prevent overwriting the stock maps when saving a modified version? for example someone modded golden cliffs but did not bother to change the name of the modified version. you join the lobby and download the modded version and play it. After the game you decide to like it, and save it which in this setting means the game shall overwrite the stock version with the custom version. Is there a way for the game to check if a name already exists in the MapsMP folder and rename the modded version you saved? for example if you save it the game sees golden cliffs in MapsMP and, mayhbe even with a confirmation screen, saves it as golden cliffs custom?

Because even though people are distrustful on the internet, there are also a lot of people who are just not paying attention and might overwrite a map with a modded version which will cause regret.

[Lewin]

Well you got a good point there, but is it possible to prevent overwriting the stock maps when saving a modified version? for example someone modded golden cliffs but did not bother to change the name of the modified version. you join the lobby and download the modded version and play it. After the game you decide to like it, and save it which in this setting means the game shall overwrite the stock version with the custom version. Is there a way for the game to check if a name already exists in the MapsMP folder and rename the modded version you saved? for example if you save it the game sees golden cliffs in MapsMP and, mayhbe even with a confirmation screen, saves it as golden cliffs custom?

Because even though people are distrustful on the internet, there are also a lot of people who are just not paying attention and might overwrite a map with a modded version which will cause regret.

The plan was for it to be like when you save from in the map editor. It lets you type in a name, and if that map already exists it will require you to tick a box "overwrite" for the save button to become enabled. We could make it automatically append " - Copy" to the name by default if it already exists. But I think users should be able to choose to overwrite the original maps if they want to, since otherwise they can just delete the original map then save it as the same name.

[dicsoupcan]

That is fair enough, i just wanted to prevent accidental overwriting.

[Michalpl]

I agree great idea gj

[Lewin]

Ok I've implemented it the way I described in the first post. The only missing part is the interface to move maps from the MapsDL folder to the MapsMP folder (and delete maps from MapsDL).

[andreus]

GJ

what about menu looking like:

[Lewin]

GJ

what about menu looking like:

Interesting idea. Although I don't like the idea of adding another layer of menus to click through (I like that the map editor is accessible from the main menu in one click). Maybe the current map editor page can have two tabs at the top: Map Editor and Manage Maps. So map editor is the default tab and you can switch to manage maps if you want.

Does anybody else have ideas of where this interface can go?

[The Dark Lord]

There is plenty space in the map editor menu; why not add a third checkbox for downloaded maps? When you select a map from the single player maps or the multiplayer maps, a button could appear next to 'load map' saying 'delete map' (or maybe it should be there by default but not clickable until you select a map), and when you select a downloaded map another button could appear (or, again, maybe it should be there by default) saying 'move to SP/MP maps' or something similar.

Also, I just noticed the 'back to menu' button extends a bit to the right compared to the button above it (create new map). Was that done on purpose? It looks a bit clumsy.