Market

[Ben]

I just watched the KaM Remake Trailer. It is quite impressive.

I see that there is now a market. Question: can you trade anything for anything? (like wood for iron)

[Lewin]

Yes you can, but resources all have different values based on how many steps they take to produce and whether they are renewable. (non-renewable are twice as valutable currently) There is also a 3x loss on trades to stop players from only gathering one resource and trading for all the others. Doing the calculation in my head: 1 iron will cost you 15 wood, and trading in 1 iron will give you 2 wood. Iron's value is 5, (2 non-renewable and 1 processing step: 2x2+1=5) wood is 1. (1 renewable resource and one processing step gives two resources: (1+1)x0.5=1) So if there was no loss 1 iron would cost you 5 wood, and the 3x loss makes it 15. I think this system is quite fair.

The overall balance/exploitability of the market will need to be tested and tweaked, but it seems ok for now.

We might eventually add extra features like dynamic trade rates, and trade rates defined in the mission script. We'll probably also disable the market in the original campaigns and have an option to disable it in multiplayer for people who don't like it.

[Ben]

Just noticed that I accidentally named the topic "Ben" :oops:
Anyway, I like the sound of that, Lewin. Disabling in the original campaigns is a good idea without doubt.
Anyway now we don't need to worry about running out of gold

Perhaps trading with allies will be possible in the future? (Like tributes)

[Danjb]

Just noticed that I accidentally named the topic "Ben" :oops:

xD

The market seems very clever and well-thought out. Obviously it's very important that it's balanced but it seems you've given that a lot of thought

If there will eventually be an option to disable the market in the original campaigns, maybe also an option to disable TPR buildings in TSK campaign?

[Lewin]

Just noticed that I accidentally named the topic "Ben" :oops:

You can fix that, just edit your first post in this thread and change the "Subject". No one will ever know
Thanks Danjb, yes we'll probably add an option for that too.

[Ben]

Forgot about that. Thanks

So what doth the future hold for tributes in KaM?

[Lewin]

Yes tributes or team trading is planned too. I'd like it to also happen in the marketplace, the serfs take the wares in and then they appear in your ally's marketplace. And there will be a loss on these too, but much less than on normal trading.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Yes tributes or team trading is planned too. I'd like it to also happen in the marketplace, the serfs take the wares in and then they appear in your ally's marketplace. And there will be a loss on these too, but much less than on normal trading.

I have to disagree here, Lewin.

If you send tributes to your ally, why should there be a loss? For example: when I donate ?5,- to a charity (at my door or something), it doesn't turn into ?3,- somehow, does it?

Also, all the other games (like AoE, AoM, EE) that use tributes, 'donate' without losses.. Why do you think there have to be losses?

[GreatWhiteBear]

Well actually, they can only spend like 60% of it to the actual goal. The rest is costs they have to make by approaching that goal like advertising.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Well actually, they can only spend like 60% of it to the actual goal. The rest is costs they have to make by approaching that goal like advertising.

Source?

And you should know that the people who come at your door to collect your money, do this voluntarily. They aren't getting paid.

Maybe it wasn't such a good example after all, but the thing is: when you donate something (money or otherwise), the party you donate to will receive everything..

Maybe a better example:
When I send my parents money by Online Banking, the entire amount is written to their account, not just 60% or so.

E.g. When I transfer ?50,- from my banking account to theirs, they receive the full ?50,-

[GreatWhiteBear]

Thats correct, but to get the resources from the first player to the other should either take time or shouldn't be profitable.
Back in the middle ages they didn't have internet banking. And usually traders would own the resources for sometime before having it arrive at the target.

What "we" could do is make a caravan unit.
Which would of course take a shit load of time to get done.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Thats correct, but to get the resources from the first player to the other should either take time or shouldn't be profitable.
Back in the middle ages they didn't have internet banking. And usually traders would own the resources for sometime before having it arrive at the target.

That's what Lewin says. Use the market. I agree with him on that part. Just not the losses. So it does take time to transfer the goods. Furthermore, it's not profitable. Only for the receiving player, but that's always the case if he gets resources. The 'giving' player will lose his resources.

What "we" could do is make a caravan unit.
Which would of course take a shit load of time to get done.

That's not going to happen. The market was a building that was left out of original KaM, but was developed in the alpha stage. A caravan unit would have to be designed and sprited from scratch and I don't think anyone of us is able to do so.

[Juba]

I agree that there should be no penalty for donating resources. There's also no need for a caravan unit, serfs can do the job. I think that the time needed to carry the goods to another player's storehouse is enough big penalty.

[Ben]

I agree with Lewin. There should be a loss on resources. In AoE there is a loss of resources until one researches technologies (coinage and banking) to decrease it. Since KaM doesn't use techs, than I believe that we should be a fee.

In my humble opinion, it should be around 20%

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

I agree with Lewin. There should be a loss on resources. In AoE there is a loss of resources until one researches technologies (coinage and banking) to decrease it. Since KaM doesn't use techs, than I believe that we should be a fee.

In my humble opinion, it should be around 20%

No, there isn't.

Only when you trade with the market, which is now the case in KaM Remake too. Not when donating to your ally.