Balance testing release r4297

[Mulberry]

So. Spears not useable now =) With 4297 people started make swordsmen, horses, axemen, archers, but people foggot about spears and maybe about pikes. It is problem =) What Developers will be do?

Ofcourse lancers arent that usefull as they were before. But i know the way to use them. Pikes are really important now to counter knights. So i tottaly disagree with you.

Yeah and i am looking forward for the next update too

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah, I actually think pikemen are more useful than before! Back then, if I had to choose between making crossbowmen or pikemen, I always chose for crossbowmen because I used leather units as melee and there wasn't much cavalry around anyway. But now people make more cavalry, and since knights are very powerful the need for pikemen is higher.

[Mulberry]

Yeah, I actually think pikemen are more useful than before! Back then, if I had to choose between making crossbowmen or pikemen, I always chose for crossbowmen because I used leather units as melee and there wasn't much cavalry around anyway. But now people make more cavalry, and since knights are very powerful the need for pikemen is higher.

Its really really hard to produce cavalry now. Actully when you have cavalry you will be outnambered or your enemy will have better combo. There is one non leather strategy for knights now and there is few ways to use scouts in late game. I hope cavalry problem will be fixed by farm patch. If farms will work better i will think about new horse involeved strategy.

[-George Stain-]

hehe.. Knights are massed just becouse of imbalanced market values (so that isn't relevant argument).. I am tottaly disappointed about whole balancig.. swordfighters and axefighters were strong against melee army, that was game mechanism.. and now they ar not rebalanced, they are just booooosted too much.. they have +1 pierce armor (so the best opinion against archer units) and still awesome 55 and 35 attack (so best opinion against all melee units).. that all mean shield units can be countered just by other shield units.. horses aren't good counters, you need to spend many time to produce good army of horses.. so it's less other units..

so for me it isn't balancig.. it's like, I want building swords instead of lancers, do them universal units for every situation...

I usually thinking about sollutions.. and I think less dmg for foot swords and axes is good.. something like from 55 to 47-48 and from 35 to 30-31

it's just trading something for something, pierce armor for damage(not that much dmg actualy...) .. (that is what balance mean)

I really don't want see shower of arguments from "PRO" players on this post.. you guys must be everytime the right.. ofc.. but it's just balance testing. not official realse.

[Mulberry]

hehe.. Knights are massed just becouse of imbalanced market values (so that isn't relevant argument).. I am tottaly disappointed about whole balancig.. swordfighters and axefighters were strong against melee army, that was game mechanism.. and now they ar not rebalanced, they are just booooosted too much.. they have +1 pierce armor (so the best opinion against archer units) and still awesome 55 and 35 attack (so best opinion against all melee units).. that all mean shield units can be countered just by other shield units.. horses aren't good counters, you need to spend many time to produce good army of horses.. so it's less other units..

so for me it isn't balancig.. it's like, I want building swords instead of lancers, do them universal units for every situation...

I usually thinking about sollutions.. and I think less dmg for foot swords and axes is good.. something like from 55 to 47-48 and from 35 to 30-31

it's just trading something for something, pierce armor for damage(not that much dmg actualy...) .. (that is what balance mean)

I really don't want see shower of arguments from "PRO" players on this post.. you guys must be everytime the right.. ofc.. but it's just balance testing. not official realse.

Said the guy who played 4 games in balance release. Or was it 3?
Anyway i can partualy agree with you about cavalry. I know only one non-market strategy to build decent amount of knights. I think there should be more options. Disagree in everithing else.

Why havent you expressed your opinion 2 weeks ago when the changes for next patch were decided?

[-George Stain-]

hehe.. Knights are massed just becouse of imbalanced market values (so that isn't relevant argument).. I am tottaly disappointed about whole balancig.. swordfighters and axefighters were strong against melee army, that was game mechanism.. and now they ar not rebalanced, they are just booooosted too much.. they have +1 pierce armor (so the best opinion against archer units) and still awesome 55 and 35 attack (so best opinion against all melee units).. that all mean shield units can be countered just by other shield units.. horses aren't good counters, you need to spend many time to produce good army of horses.. so it's less other units..

so for me it isn't balancig.. it's like, I want building swords instead of lancers, do them universal units for every situation...

I usually thinking about sollutions.. and I think less dmg for foot swords and axes is good.. something like from 55 to 47-48 and from 35 to 30-31

it's just trading something for something, pierce armor for damage(not that much dmg actualy...) .. (that is what balance mean)

I really don't want see shower of arguments from "PRO" players on this post.. you guys must be everytime the right.. ofc.. but it's just balance testing. not official realse.

Said the guy who played 4 games in balance release. Or was it 3?
Anyway i can partualy agree with you about cavalry. I know only one non-market strategy to build decent amount of knights. I think there should be more options. Disagree in everithing else.

Why havent you expressed your opinion 2 weeks ago when the changes for next patch were decided?

I played lot more games mully.. I think you wasn't there for some time.. but I can say that with 0 games palyed too... that is simple logical..

no matter if you dissagre with me, you are not developer, you are just guy who is playing KaM Remake.. I am interested just about Krom's and Lewin's answers..

[Mulberry]

hehe.. Knights are massed just becouse of imbalanced market values (so that isn't relevant argument).. I am tottaly disappointed about whole balancig.. swordfighters and axefighters were strong against melee army, that was game mechanism.. and now they ar not rebalanced, they are just booooosted too much.. they have +1 pierce armor (so the best opinion against archer units) and still awesome 55 and 35 attack (so best opinion against all melee units).. that all mean shield units can be countered just by other shield units.. horses aren't good counters, you need to spend many time to produce good army of horses.. so it's less other units..

so for me it isn't balancig.. it's like, I want building swords instead of lancers, do them universal units for every situation...

I usually thinking about sollutions.. and I think less dmg for foot swords and axes is good.. something like from 55 to 47-48 and from 35 to 30-31

it's just trading something for something, pierce armor for damage(not that much dmg actualy...) .. (that is what balance mean)

I really don't want see shower of arguments from "PRO" players on this post.. you guys must be everytime the right.. ofc.. but it's just balance testing. not official realse.

Said the guy who played 4 games in balance release. Or was it 3?
Anyway i can partualy agree with you about cavalry. I know only one non-market strategy to build decent amount of knights. I think there should be more options. Disagree in everithing else.

Why havent you expressed your opinion 2 weeks ago when the changes for next patch were decided?

I played lot more games mully.. I think you wasn't there for some time.. but I can say that with 0 games palyed too... that is simple logical..

no matter if you dissagre with me, you are not developer, you are just guy who is playing KaM Remake.. I am interested just about Krom's and Lewin's answers..

I believe i am not "just a guy". I am a tester and i have responsibilities. I am trying to take my view of game as close as i can to programmers one. As far as i know they allready answered on your concern but looks like you didnt pay enought attention on reading discussion and didnt participate in TS conferentions too. Be more social, George. I am sure everybody respect you. It feels like i've allready said it to you once.

[EDMatt]

hehe.. Knights are massed just becouse of imbalanced market values (so that isn't relevant argument).. I am tottaly disappointed about whole balancig.. swordfighters and axefighters were strong against melee army, that was game mechanism.. and now they ar not rebalanced, they are just booooosted too much.. they have +1 pierce armor (so the best opinion against archer units) and still awesome 55 and 35 attack (so best opinion against all melee units).. that all mean shield units can be countered just by other shield units.. horses aren't good counters, you need to spend many time to produce good army of horses.. so it's less other units..

so for me it isn't balancig.. it's like, I want building swords instead of lancers, do them universal units for every situation...

I usually thinking about sollutions.. and I think less dmg for foot swords and axes is good.. something like from 55 to 47-48 and from 35 to 30-31

it's just trading something for something, pierce armor for damage(not that much dmg actualy...) .. (that is what balance mean)

I really don't want see shower of arguments from "PRO" players on this post.. you guys must be everytime the right.. ofc.. but it's just balance testing. not official realse.

Said the guy who played 4 games in balance release. Or was it 3?
Anyway i can partualy agree with you about cavalry. I know only one non-market strategy to build decent amount of knights. I think there should be more options. Disagree in everithing else.

Why havent you expressed your opinion 2 weeks ago when the changes for next patch were decided?

I played lot more games mully.. I think you wasn't there for some time.. but I can say that with 0 games palyed too... that is simple logical..

no matter if you dissagre with me, you are not developer, you are just guy who is playing KaM Remake.. I am interested just about Krom's and Lewin's answers..

that is the wrong attitude to have, since Krom and Lewin rely on beta testers to come here and discuss about the balance and give advice, and I doubt it is the way to go (getting personal about things).
I have to agree with Mully's POV.

Also there is a reason why for a player building swords only is not a good choice, Swords can be countered through various methods.
I belive I do not have to explain it to you in detail as you have already seen it yourself hopefully, a great example of countering swords is Romek/pizza/Mully, as they use every unit to its fullest, the trick is not to go for anything specific.

[-George Stain-]

I believe i am not "just a guy". I am a tester and i have responsibilities. I am trying to take my view of game as close as i can to programmers one. As far as i know they allready answered on your concern but looks like you didnt pay enought attention on reading discussion and didnt participate in TS conferentions too. Be more social, George. I am sure everybody respect you. It feels like i've allready said it to you once.

I trying to be social, but I am limited by my english skills.. I respecting your opinion too, but it can't change my opinions.. this is something little different.. there is many ways how to balance units.. I suggested this one now.. I know, you don't like it.. but why? And if I am right, I remember times when you was saing that axefighters and swords are ok, you just must know how to use them.. and now they are still good as before, but even more better for same cost.. best dmg, best armor, no real weaknes.. I am very amused if I get answer like.. you can beat swordfighters with 40+ xbows or more sworfighters than enemy have.

that is the wrong attitude to have, since Krom and Lewin rely on beta testers to come here and discuss about the balance and give advice, and I doubt it is the way to go (getting personal about things).
I have to agree with Mully's POV.

Also there is a reason why for a player building swords only is not a good choice, Swords can be countered through various methods.
I belive I do not have to explain it to you in detail as you have already seen it yourself hopefully, a great example of countering swords is Romek/pizza/Mully, as they use every unit to its fullest, the trick is not to go for anything specific.

ohh this is so annoying.. really is game about you mull romek and pizza? ofc you can beat swordsmans in hands of noob.. a few moments ago I played game.. I went for only swords and bowmens.. that was just epic.. this combo can eat everything.. and say what you want.. I had to apologize my enemy for use this imba combo.. ofc rush can beat macro game.. but rush is imba too atm..

I know that I can't fit with your opinions, it's too depth thinking about whole game.. not about my personal strategies.. in all game with mully I saw by him only swords and bows.. maybe some axes and horses.. so I know.. he must protect his combo.. that is basical KaM pro thinking.. what I know from many many months played Remake..

I sounds like the Biggest complainer in the world, but life is hard.. especialy on KaM forum..

Please edit your post next time rather than making a new one. Thanks.
~TDL

[Da Revolution]

Militia all the way. Problem solved. Lets get back on topic.

[EDMatt]

Edit: I still do not understand where you'r arguments are comming from, you seem to base your ideas on a single game.
And on replays of Mullberry.

[-George Stain-]

Edit: I still do not understand where you'r arguments are comming from, you seem to base your ideas on a single game.
And on replays of Mullberry.

in normal game shield provides extra dmg, this is very usefull bonus. But nobody were using it, becouse of afraid archer units.
in patch shield provide extra dmg and armor bonus in same time. so you are generaly building this units becouse it is best tank against projectiles, but they stil have same attack as before, so I don't see balance. I see only improve of some units, this is not balance.. they are not rebalanced, they are just boosted..

I don't know why you are still talking about games and replays.. I expected that they will be too much good becouse it's logical, isn't it? only boost without compensation is in my eyes bad move. this is too big change.. games what I played just prooved to me.. I generaly talking aobut the game, but I know everthing depend on personal skills etc..

anyway, I give up discussion.. I don't know the right words for explain it clearly in english and nobody supporting me gg.

[The Dark Lord]

Please explain me why a boost can never be the same as rebalancing? Axe fighters and sword fighters died way too fast and are expensive to make, so yeah they needed a boost in order to rebalance things.

[EDMatt]

Please explain me why a boost can never be the same as rebalancing? Axe fighters and sword fighters died way too fast and are expensive to make, so yeah they needed a boost in order to rebalance things.

He explained to me that in singleplayer, when I told him to test a few things to back his theories up, he put up 30 lancers and 30 xbow vs 30 swords and 30 xbow, and 30 sword - 30 xbow easily won, therefor it is imba, that is how he explained it to me.
If you ask me, I think its nonsense , this way of thinking is wrong. =S I am yet unsure as to what his goal in this test was????

[-George Stain-]

Please explain me why a boost can never be the same as rebalancing? Axe fighters and sword fighters died way too fast and are expensive to make, so yeah they needed a boost in order to rebalance things.

He explained to me that in singleplayer, when I told him to test a few things to back his theories up, he put up 30 lancers and 30 xbow vs 30 swords and 30 xbow, and 30 sword - 30 xbow easily won, therefor it is imba, that is how he explained it to me.
If you ask me, I think its nonsense , this way of thinking is wrong. =S I am yet unsure as to what his goal in this test was????

please don't lie Matt.. I never say nothing about this numbers of soldiers.. I only tested leather melee + xbows.. 15 xbows and 30 lancers vs 15 xbows and 30 axefighters.. becouse you think that I need test something..

Dark Lord. They are boosted in their weaknes, that is right, but now you can use even their strong attack.. which is true reason why this units have shield.. so 1 shield = 1 natural bonus from creators of game (strong attack) and 1 artificial bonus (pierce armor).. in my eyes that's bad balance..

it does not matter, I don't want say nothing more.. you can be calm.