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Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

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caykroyd

Crossbowman

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Post 03 Feb 2012, 17:30

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

I pretty much agree with most everything in your post, sir cabbage.
I have only a few concerns;
about the recruits in the siege engines (@kridge - will it be possible to draw a siege engine with 4 recruits?);
the only thing i disagree is the ballista, as was argued already - I don't think ballistas should attack only buildings; I think they should really do exactly the opposite - ballistas were designed to kill people, really.

The rest, very nice. I hope more people like them as i did. :P
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SirCabbage

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Post 03 Feb 2012, 20:58

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

I have no problem with ballistas being able to target units, the question is have the other changes I have suggested added enough cost to building them?
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batoonike

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Post 04 Feb 2012, 10:13

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

I think adding complitely new buildings, units and gameplay mechanism would destroy the game, be it monk, battering ram, different delivery system or splitting old buildings into two new ones. The difficiculties one faces when the town grows too big, when serves get stucked up, when delivieries don't work, when one's army consists 70% of corssbowmen and so on, are part of the gameplay that makes "KaM Remake" KaM. Guess it's wrong topic to say that it but... still counts!
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SirCabbage

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Post 04 Feb 2012, 10:29

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

I think adding complitely new buildings, units and gameplay mechanism would destroy the game, be it monk, battering ram, different delivery system or splitting old buildings into two new ones. The difficiculties one faces when the town grows too big, when serves get stucked up, when delivieries don't work, when one's army consists 70% of corssbowmen and so on, are part of the gameplay that makes "KaM Remake" KaM. Guess it's wrong topic to say that it but... still counts!
I thought I read somewhere that lewin said when they start adding new content they would make it an optional version?


I am of the camp that it is the game-play mechanics that make the game rather then the limitations. Serfs getting confused has been said to be an error they are trying to fix. Frankly, I think they should already have made a separate version when they added the market, or at least a button to turn it off. But I know based on lewin's comments that he will most likely one day make the game more flexible and that users like me who want to expand on it in a logical and realistic sense will be just as catered for and happy as those of you who prefer a traditional experience. All it would really take is a few check-boxes to turn things off and on based on who was playing.

It would be especially nice if users then started labelling their games on multi as either (Traditional) or (Improved). If this was so, then surely we could all be happy.

Realistically, the problems in late-game with serfs and AI was not due to the core gameplay, but due to the limitations of the old code/machines. If my town starts screwing up after playing it for a long long time on the original, that isn't because its what KaM is, its because it used to be limited. KaM remake has already started to make more aggressive AI then the original, and will hopefully soon deal with the serf AI issues.
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batoonike

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 09:38

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

That would be fine, expect "improved" word should be replaced with "Altered" :D
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Krom

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 12:00

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

@SirCabbage: I'm deeply impressed by your posts and amount of suggestions you write and actually supporting words with deeds! With your permission I'm going to make a Google.Docs document where units lines could be stored and improved (KaM is a medieval game and it needs corresponding phrases, much like what Litude is making with mission texts being rewritten in old-english)

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gb- ... W8Urw/edit
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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SirCabbage

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 12:23

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

Its great to hear that Krom. Hopefully having it on a google doc will allow others with a more historical background have their say on my idea.

I hope you do put my idea (and others) into the game eventually.. if only as an optional thing (obviously)

And yes, it goes without saying I give permission. My ideas were the projects the moment I typed them on here haha


Speaking of- If you would like me to write a few for the perspective monk, forester, seamstress ect I would be willing. Not that I expect them to be put into the game, but so that if you ever do decide to the lines will already be there for you to use.

And might I just add, its almost impossibly hard to add a good looking avatar when it can only be 100 x 100 pixels and 8 kb, no wonder so many people here dont have one.
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caykroyd

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 14:09

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

And might I just add, its almost impossibly hard to add a good looking avatar when it can only be 100 x 100 pixels and 8 kb, no wonder so many people here dont have one.
true :/
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Krom

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 14:17

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

Maybe monk/seamstress/wifes ideas are too radical for KaM as we know it ..

P.S. IMHO the avatar idea has been overworked - there could be nothing spectacular that would not fit into 80x80. I for myself have avatars disabled altogether )
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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caykroyd

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 14:45

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

P.S. IMHO the avatar idea has been overworked - there could be nothing spectacular that would not fit into 80x80. I for myself have avatars disabled altogether )
Its not the 80x80, its the max size permitted.
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themyth

Laborer

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 16:23

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

how about mantlets for against range weapons? this unit can be carried 1 or 2 recruit and it have be good defence against arrow

Image
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GreatWhiteBear

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 17:34

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

IMO, this idea is great.
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caykroyd

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 17:39

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

IMO, this idea is great.
great? not sure. Needs to be more developed for me to take one side or the other
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SirCabbage

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Post 05 Feb 2012, 22:13

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

Maybe monk/seamstress/wifes ideas are too radical for KaM as we know it ..

P.S. IMHO the avatar idea has been overworked - there could be nothing spectacular that would not fit into 80x80. I for myself have avatars disabled altogether )
I must say though its ironic when the one person I have seen around here with an avatar has them turned off. :P

Perhaps- or perhaps they are the first major optional feature you could add for a "plus" version. I admit they may seem a little extreme, but they are realistic enough, and the monk was already being discussed due to the monastry that was cut from the alpha. They are pretty damn radical ill admit, however, I think it could work in such a way that everyone could be happy.

I suggest a new button on starting either your own multiplayer game or single map option- It could be called "Addons" or "Modifcations" or perhaps even "Customisation Options". The default would be default KaM with only Markets checked as a new feature (due to their general acceptance) Then there would be multiple sections as follows

Gameplay
Faith System
Marrage System
Lane System
Continuous Trading
Interactive Sentences (ticked by default?)
City Capture

Buildings
Monastery
Market (ticked by default)
Seamstress
Sheep Farm
Wheelwright
Geologist
Forrester

Units
Cart
Battering Ram
Mantlets (like the idea themyth, especially if bow units were somehow more likely to hit them)

Peasants Rebellion Features
Town Hall
(Town Hall Balancing)
Siege Workshop
(Siege Workshop Balancing)


Essentially, how this would work is simple. You tick Sheep Farm - It activates sheep farm, which produces Wool, and Sheep Carcass, has no dependancies so it turns on alone.
However, if you turn on Wives it will turn on Monastry, Seamstress, and Sheep Farm
Turning on carts will turn on wheelwright, siege workshop and siege workshop balancing as will turning on wheelwright.
Turning off say, sheep farm and seamstress but keeping on wives would result in a warning (Warning, you will have to trade for dresses in the market with these settings) or if the market is unchecked too (Warning this feature is not available without raw resources.)

Why you may ask? Well it is obvious that people want this to go in two ways. One group such as myself would like to see additions, the other group would not. By giving users the choice to pick then things becomes oodles easier. Right now as it stands, new features like the market have to be discussed and debated to no end. Now while that wouldn't change on itself, it may allow both sides to give more concessions. If this system was adopted, ideas would have to be simply realistic and well supported. They would be allowed to change more then the average patch, since the users who want the traditional game-play still have it.

In fact, this system allows for even more traditional non-biased gaming by giving users the option to enable even the unfair magic siege or gold trained super troops- if they and the users they play with want that. When joining a game, users would be able to see the addons in play, and possibly there could be a "vote" button. So just say you are playing with 3 other people, with everything turned on. But 3 of the people who joined your server hate siege engines with a passion. Well, if all three voted against it, the host could simply turn the addon back off.

Is the extra effort worth it? Well, possibly. I believe so, but then again I am one of those in a camp who would benefit from such a change. It would open the door later for modding (if you wanted to add it), would be a marketing point (new content is always a way to entice more people. More people helping with the project means more people on multiplayer- and more fun.) and it would allow you to not only keep your vision of a Perfect KaM remake alive, but give plenty of others enjoyment. People love the market- why not let them love some other things too?

IF what you are worried about is the size, simply make it that bigger changes (such as an alternate music set) would require an aditional download (which would happen the first time you ticked the box (you would be warned first). This whole system would be similar to the modding system in OTTD.


Also, Themyth. I like that idea, however, due to the wheels required and such, perhaps that could be built in the siege workshop with 4 wood and 2 wheels (or without that step if you just had the unit on, and not the siege workshop) and then taken to the castle where it could be trained with the two recruits you suggested.

I wonder if it would be good to class them as siege, then you could make it that other siege weapons kill it easily (including towers) but it is immune to bow-fire (however is a priority target) Point is, I love the idea. And its a perfect addition to help me say why we need a customisation menu.
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

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Post 06 Feb 2012, 09:27

Re: Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

My avatar has been around since 2004 or so, shortly after Worms3 were released. Since then avatars fashion changed a lot ..

Anyway, back to topic: I find most of the sounded ideas too radical for KaM as we know it. Not sure if we could possibly provide plug-in system in the Remake to support such features. It is far, far more complicated than you might think. For now we need to focus on multiplayer and AI which will keep us busy for a year or so ..
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de

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