Ideas - New Units and Buildings (Brainstorming)

[caykroyd]

Hi, i created a topic, as Krom suggested, to develop any new ideas concerning new units or buildings.

Ideas being developed:
Monk
Monastery
Paladin/Templar
Wool Farm

[caykroyd]

@kridge - i had thought differently about the monk. i didn't express my opinion as i meant to. well, i hadnt thought the monk being military, but a unit like the rest in kam(eg. famer, fisherman,...) and he would just move by his own will to a random troop of units and bless it (for the duration of some seconds). about the paladin, i have to agree with the siegfried. and i dont like the crossbow idea. Maybe put a diferent weapon on him, i dont really know, but i think he shoud loose for a swordsman certainly. what i meant about the training thing, was not to put the monk on a horse, but to train the paladin using as a recruit the monk.

That was exactly as I wanted to do. You certainly know what I mean. The not mil. unit thing is great. And maybe the monk should "recharge" after blessing some troops. So that they won't bless your entire army at once.(Like he blesses one, then he immediately goes on blessing some other army). I think the paladin is kinda hard to make and he would indeed be overpowered, but as you read back, the paladin wasn't my idea. However, I like the idea of some "religious" military unit coming out of the monastry as well. Maybe some sort of Knight Templar. Only slightly better as the usual Knight, but you can't see the difference, only their general appearance. For ex. make them completely white, only their shield and back have a cross, like the monastry in your troops colors. Maybe that would solve it?

I like the monk as recruit for the paladin too. Maybe we should add some function that a monk should be trained and is blessing some armies, before he can go back to a monastry and be trained as Paladin/Knight Templar. I think however the monk should "rest/recharge" in the monastry and then go blessing armies again. But it would be to easy to create a monk and turn it into a Paladin/Templar after a few moments. The "waiting/training" period should be longer. Maybe let the monk make some sort of sacred journey, which would take him about 3-8 minutes (Just brainstorming). In my opinion, I think the monk should cost 1 chest of gold. To create the paladin, you should need to create everything you would need for a regular Knight. The weapons should be stored inside the monastry, limited to 5. Like wood is limited to 5. So when the monastry is filled, you can create some regular knights as well. This way you wouldn't have to split the weapons between the barracks and monastry. You would need a horse as well.
The special power of the Paladin could be that he could turn an enemy into a friend with a chance of 1 out 25? Just guessing some values here. The reason for this would be his intent to forgive the mistakes that they make (bla bla bla). But when he would have this special power, he should be the same as the usual knight with this only exception.

I'm working on another (chain of) building(s) as well, and I think I found a way to use them.
I wanted to create a sheepfarm. However the sheeps wouldn't be slaughtered, so the building wouldn't produce food. They would produce raw wool. The raw wool would need to be converted into a ball of wool. This could be done by a similar guy like the butcher in the leather thing. Then you would need the wool to create a monk, for it's clothes. So the monk would cost a chest of gold, and a ball of wool. The wool could also function as some sort of string. I'm working on the buildings at this moment, but I'd like to know your opinion.
I will upload images of the buildings, the monk and the Templar or Paladin as soon as possible,

you though of using this image?

[=NL= Gila]

lol, I was thinking of such a building, saw that in the German forum, used to be one of the first versions of the corn farm, right?

[caykroyd]

lol, I was thinking of such a building, saw that in the German forum, used to be one of the first versions of the corn farm, right?

yeah

[Kridge]

lol, I was thinking of such a building, saw that in the German forum, used to be one of the first versions of the corn farm, right?

Yes it is. And I indeed used it to create the wool farm. But I don't know if the whole idea of wool works. Anyway the sheepfarm:

And the building that would convert the raw wool into balls of wool string:

But I'm really doubting the wool part of it. For the monk, I wouldn't use it. So the buildings won't have any use untill the wool has one.

I'm working on the Templar or Paladin now, the monk is right after him. But it's harder then I thought'd be.

[caykroyd]

lol, I was thinking of such a building, saw that in the German forum, used to be one of the first versions of the corn farm, right?

Yes it is. And I indeed used it to create the wool farm. But I don't know if the whole idea of wool works. Anyway the sheepfarm:

And the building that would convert the raw wool into balls of wool string:

But I'm really doubting the wool part of it. For the monk, I wouldn't use it. So the buildings won't have any use untill the wool has one.

I'm working on the Templar or Paladin now, the monk is right after him. But it's harder then I thought'd be.

hahaha, aren't those on the image pigs???!?! they look like pigs to me...
should the wool be made into clothes??

suggestion: why not use one of these below for the wool ball house? I personally prefer the first... Because the one u made looks too much like the tannery if u don't mind me saying (it IS the tannery!)

[Siegfried]

Kridge, no offense intended - but did you just copy the pigs from the swine farm? They don't look like sheep.

Sheep are ruminant animals, therefore their feed is forage, not corn.

[GreatWhiteBear]

No offense, we are brainstorming, this is my idea:
This is the worst idea so far.

Wool for the clothes of a monk?
EVERY CITIZEN HAS CLOTHES!
Siegfried is also right, no corn for the sheep.

A walking stick would even be a better idea, or paper for his Bible!

And then there is the point of the monk itself.
I hate it. Monks didn't fight and weren't used in fights, except for the crusades.
A war blessing of a monk was to the average soldier the same as "sleeping" with his wife: Lets get it over with so I can go to sleep.
Another strange fact is that when he sees that monk he probably is reminded of his wife.
There are 3 reasons:
1. The fat.
2. Nag nag nag nag nag!
3. The fat.

IF the monk was thin, he had diabetes.
IF the wife was thin, he wasn't a soldier.

The monk however, could be used for mending soldiers.
But should still need 1bread, 1sausage and 1wine to feed him properly, he should also occupy 4 squares.

*How do you destroy a tower under a hill?*
-Role the monk down the hill.-


Seriously, a paladin?
Enlighten me cause I don't know how this could work.



Don't forget people, these are the dark medieval ages. No crusades(so certainly no Templars), no reliable central governments.
A blessing was like a spell to the people; You have no idea what the priest says but it sounds divine, like a higher power is watching over.
No plated armor like a real paladin had, those were only for the lords.

Soldiers wore leather armor and those who could afford it had chain mail, only rich people had actual steel armor.


Now the monastery on the other hand could be a good thing, it could be used to mend troops or to train monks who would mend the troops on the battle field.

[Lewin]

I have to agree with GreatWhiteBear on all points except about mending soldiers, that's unnecessary because hit points are restored automatically. (and there's only 1-4 hit points anyway) KaM is special because it doesn't have hit point bars and the combat is a lot less predictable than games like AOE where each strike reduces a fixed number of hit points so you can always tell the outcome of 1vs1 fights before they even begin.
And "mending" troops is one of my least favourite tasks in RTS games like AOE and Empire Earth, sending your soldiers/ships/trebuchets/whatever back to a monk/villager/base all the time to get healed up...

I don't really like the sound of sheep, monks or paladins but I'm always open to hearing new ideas and seeing new sprites, it's great to have someone who can make/edit them

Wool for the clothes of a monk?
EVERY CITIZEN HAS CLOTHES!
Siegfried is also right, no corn for the sheep.

A walking stick would even be a better idea, or paper for his Bible!

LOL
*sarcasm* Someone want to make some sprites for the walking stick maker's house or the paper mill?

[Lord_Stronghold]

Paladin/Templar

I think that paladin is preferable, than Templar, cause there are many another knights of orders like hospitaliers or teutonic knights. Paladin - is a holy knight. It is more common word than templar. BTW I do not insist on making such units. I just thought that the main feature of knights as the war unit - is charge. And this ability can be something like storm-attacking of infantry, and when such knights make a charge - we can keep them in our control (like infantry). Guys from KaMclub said that knights might make a charge with no lance but I am sure that charge without lance - it is something like football with no ball However origin knights are good and as I told earlier - such knights like paladins are not necessary.

[GreatWhiteBear]

I don't really like the sound of sheep

Me neither, they always wake me up with their early bleating or whatever sound they make.

@Lord Stronghold
Read again, KaM is situated in the early medieval period, therefore they didn't have holy knights because religion wasn't that far developed.
Which was due to war and bad infrastructure.

[Kridge]

As I already said earlier, I don't like the wool idea either. And I know the woolworkers house looks a lot like the tannery. That's why I don't like it. And I know there are pigs instead of sheep, because I haven't made the sprites yet. That'd be because you may not even like it, and I'm doing a lot of work for nothing. Anyway, I agree on the sheepfarmchain, but the monk and Paladin could be a pretty good idea. The way I would implent it:

Monastry (Cost: 5 timber/5 stone)
Trains:
- Monks (Cost: 1 chest of gold)
- Paladins (Cost: 1 horse, 1 sword, 1 shield, 1 armour, 1 monk)

Way of storing weapons: Like in the Barracks, but limited to a max. of 5 each.
So when filled completely, the Monastry would contain 5 horses, 5 swords, 5 shields, 5 armour, 5 monks.
In 1 Monastry, only 5 monks can live. When you create a second Monastry, you can create 10 monks.

The Monk: Not a military unit, lives in the Monastry.
The Monk is trained like a unit that is trained in school, only The Monk is trained inside the Monastry (when there's gold).
The Monk has to eat as any other 'villager' and needs to rest or sleep after he blessed some of the troops. Blessing the troops means that the troops will get a bonus ability, for example an archer would get +1 range for about 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, the troops are just like normal troops.
An other example: the Militia would get +1 attack (point or whatever it's called). After 5 minutes his powers fade away and he returns to normal.
This isn't written in stone, this can change, like almost everything

The Paladin: A religious military unit, trained in the Monastry.
Is as strong as the usual Knight, but has the ability to turn enemies into allies/charge as a Knight.
The Monk serves as a recruit for the Paladin.

But I think it shouldn't become a simulation of the time in which KaM was placed. We should be able to add ideas, wether they're realistic or not. I don't mean you should add submarines and planes, but in a minimalistic way it shouldn't be too realistic. However, that's a different discussion and I'm not going there. Anyway, these were just ideas that popped up in my mind, and I shared them with you, because you might like it, or you would see another way to use it. I'm not dictating any ideas. I'm brainstorming, and not because there HAS to be added something. It'd just be nice. Anyway, when we would implent a building that not everyone likes, then the ones that don't like it just shouldn't build it.

And making the sprites can be done with for example GIMP as well. I'm using Photoshop, but it is hard to draw new new sprites, without anything to base it on. So I always use (or try to use) an other building or unit that can serve as base. BUT, there's also the problem that some sprites change in a funny way, for example the ones that sit on horses sit different then lance carriers walk. So you can't just copy-paste it on there. And it takes ages to complete the complete folder of sprites, since for example the catapult has already 328 sprites only (I doubt about the 328, but my computer says I'm right, since they are counted by the pc, I think it's because of the dying animations of the catapult as well). The recruit has 64 sprites and a unit like the Knight has 96 sprites. Working non-stop you could complete a unit in about 1-3 days, but if can do max. 10-15 units a day, you need a lot of days, maybe even weeks. But when there's someone out there who would like to be able to learn some basics, and help out creating sprites, I would be pleased. I'm willing to help you out. Sprite editing isn't the only thing you can do when you use these programs, and I'll help you with anything I'm familiar with.

[GreatWhiteBear]

God, make it stop!
This way it isn't KaM anymore!

READ: KaM is situated in the early medieval period, therefore they didn't have holy knights because religion wasn't that far developed.

READ AGAIN: KaM is situated in the early medieval period, therefore they didn't have holy knights because religion wasn't that far developed.

NOW CARVE IT IN YOUR MIND: KaM is situated in the early medieval period, therefore they didn't have holy knights because religion wasn't that far developed.

Those blessings are nonsense. No magic involved in KaM.
A man fights for his money and under certain circumstances for his family or life.
NO F*CKING BLESSING TO CHANGE THAT!

An arrow cannot reach a longer distance just because some monk blessed the archer.

[themyth]

cavalry archer will be good for kam but produce cant be easy maybe it build by theese things = 1 horse 1 iron armor 1 longbow

[batoonike]

Did they have cavalry archers in early medieveal Europe? In wikipedia it says they had them in Central Asia and later some "cavalry crossbowmen" in Europe. But the cavalry crossbowman in KaM sounds a little bit overpowered