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Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

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ThibbyRozier

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Post 25 Dec 2011, 21:00

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

2 axe and 1 metal armor, sounds ok to me because 2axes together will be like the warrior axe.
...Yeah.
Two axes made of wood and stone will turn into a huge iron axe.

Themyth, If TPR soldiers will ever be trainable, it will NOT be like that. An axe and horse as requirements to train a vagabond are realistic, but everything else isn't, so set it out of your mind. ;)
The best solution to this in my opinion would be,
Put a new option in for the weapon smithy to make battle axes.
One recruit + one battle axe = barbarian, one recruit + one battle axe + one heavy (metal) armor = warrior.
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Thimo Braker (ThibbyRozier)

Owner of Thibmo audio productions and theater technician at Hof88 Almelo.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 25 Dec 2011, 21:04

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

A barbarian is stronger than a sword fighter...

Barbarian: axe
Sword fighter: sword + iron armour + iron shield

Doesn't sound fair to me.

Anyway, read Lewin's post. It's very unlikely to be implemented in such a way.
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ThibbyRozier

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Post 25 Dec 2011, 21:11

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

A barbarian is stronger than a sword fighter...

Barbarian: axe
Sword fighter: sword + iron armour + iron shield

Doesn't sound fair to me.

Anyway, read Lewin's post. It's very unlikely to be implemented in such a way.
True, but it could be 2 iron + 1 coal to produce one battle axe.
And how about lowering the rates?
Or just leave them out indeed.
The options of TSK is good enough in my eyes.
Though I have to admit that I love the market.

Ps, I updated the reply to Lewin.
Kind regards,
Thimo Braker (ThibbyRozier)

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Siegfried

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Post 25 Dec 2011, 23:48

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Lewin already said that a rebel uses a pitchfork, not a spear.
Please stop taking the "realism" too far. It's a strategy game rather than an accurate simulation.

If you really want to have the most realistic and detailed simulation available, try Die Germanen and see, that this project started over a decade ago but there is no sign of a soon finish or even a beta version because the amount of details is way too much for a small programer team.

And please see that there goes one wooden board into the weapons workshop and out comes an axe or a lance. I ask myself, where comes the iron for the upper part of it? Not very realistic, is it?

Laborer uses some wood and some stone to finish buildings with a thatched roof and a wavering flag. Is the flag then made of stone or wood?

The game uses 256 colors - is that realistic? It has no night, no rain, no seasons. How does the corn grow without rain? Where does the first vine in the wineyard come from? The corn grows at least five times before the farmer becomes hungry. He must be a survivalist, or very economical with his food.

Face it, a game always is and always has to be a simplification. It cannot cover the reality as it is way too complex. And isn't it this reason, why we play games - because it's somewhat easy?

I would not count on any argument refering to realism or similar things.

The only argument that counts is - the idea fits or not.

This cannot be objective, so we can discuss about this. And yes, if you make a pike but then the rebel comes out with something, that looks like a pitchfork, then I say, this is the same thing as moving the vagabond to the barracks, put a horse in it and then recruit a vagabond that rides on something that looks like a mule. We don't have a mule farm, but nevertheless I think it is a good idea to move the vagabond to the barracks.

And I think it is a good idea to also move the slinger and the rebel to the barracks, as this gives you 3 possibilities for each soldier type. A very weak one (milita - rogue - rebel - vagabond), one for the basis of your army (axe fighter - bowman - lance carrier - scout) and elite troops (sword fighter - crossbowman - pikeman - knight). And leaving out the barbarien/warrior for special events, fighting missings and similar to keep some tension.

If there wasn't the problem of balancing the whole thing, I'd suggest to give it a go. For sure. But as long as the rogue is little more than a too cheap bowman with the same, great advantages (the defense point almost does not matter as both will die very soon if attacked because of the 1 life point), I'd hate to see them compete with the bowman. Also, the slinger rather seems to be made out of leather than of wood (which would make it only little cheaper than the bowman because you sill need the tannery). And we want to stay realistic, don't we? ;)
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Lewin

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 01:23

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Well, if I am right... The Remake servers and the TPR's and TSK's original servers don't combine.
And I thought about making a small pop-up window, 400x100 (WxH), with a accept and dismiss (or reject) button and the host/server name.
And it would be a small, yet good idea to make the server page refresh in every... 10, maybe 30 seconds.
Well TSK didn't have any servers, and the TPR server (Net-Games) has been offline for 6+ years.
So you mean this should be a separate application that you run on your computer, which offers to start the KaM Remake when someone is organising a game? I don't think it would be used much and it could become annoying, there are a lot of games organised so I think it would be flashing at you a lot. Ideally I'd like to use something like Steam because that offers friends and invites as part of the service, but obviously we can't sell it on Steam because we don't own it.

We're going to try fog of war and probably make it optional. (host can choose) It will obviously greatly change the game compared to original KaM, but I think it will be worth trying. Also we'll make units see quite a long way through the "fog" (maybe twice as far as they see through the initial blackness) so you can still have massive battles as we love in KaM, but you cannot see your enemy's village just because you walked there 2 hours ago. (you'll just see what it looked like back then) All of this will be tried and tested and if it works we'll keep it, if it doesn't it will be removed or changed and tested again.
Bla,bla,bla... I really liked this idea. This way you would be able to train troops during PT! however, the troops should not attack eachother if they encounter themselves on the border(like archers shooting through borders) AND THE BORDERS SHOULD BE SHARED BY THE TEAM, AND NOT EACH PLAYER!!! BECAUSE OTHERWISE IN GAMES THAT HAVE PLAYERS NEXT TO EACH OTHER, THE SHARED STONE WOULD BELONG TO ONLY ONE, AS WOULD THE BIG LUMP OF GOLD BETWEEN THEM, ETC! IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE!
YES IT WILL BE DONE PER TEAM NOT PER PLAYER! THAT IS WHY I WROTE THIS:
At the start of the game, the engine calculates a territory for each team.
I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION!
Please stop taking the "realism" too far. It's a strategy game rather than an accurate simulation.
Good point. I have some other ideas for new things we can add:
- A guy with a flail or morning star: 1 sausage string + 1 stone + leather armour (a string of sausages is similar enough to a rope/chain in a game where realism doesn't matter, and he can tie the rock on the end)
- A guy with a rifle: 1 lance (both rifles and lances are kind of long and thin, same as pitchforks and lances)
- A guy with a shotgun: 1 iron bar (if two hand-axes look like a great-axe, then the iron bar looks kind of like a shotgun I guess)
- Elephant riders: 1 horse (close enough to an elephant) + 1 lance
- An aeroplane: 20 wood + 5 sausages to tie it together
- A nuclear bomb: 20 gold ore + 2 iron (gold and uranium and close enough, but we might need to add a new building "the centrifuge" to refine the gold ore into uranium that can be used for a bomb. I guess the metallurgist can work there)

On a side note I think that barbarians/warriors are "special" units and should never be trainable. They are the KaM elites, you should only get them at the start of missions in my opinion. The other TPR units I'm not so fussed about.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 01:43

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

LOOOOOOOOOOL

No aeroplane please. If it flies over my village the enemy can see everything and I hate that. :(
Elephant riders sound great though!
Btw, what about a submarine for sneaky attacks! 15 iron and 10 stones (when the stones are taken on board the submarine will dive and when the stones are thrown out of the submarine it will raise again).

Anyway, the territory idea sounds very good. There is just one small thing that is repugnant to me: people won't be able to build towards the enemy to lock him up with towers or anything like that. I'd never use a tactic like that because it slows you down, but I think people should be free to use this tactic. On the other hand that kinda ruins the whole PEACE time concept. :P
It's a better suggestion than everything I came up with so I say AYE!
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Jeronimo

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 04:26

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

@Siegfried, you came a bit late with that idea.
I already wrote it in page 17-18?, and he declined in that moment.
Its important to read the flow of the conversations, even in such advanced threads, from at least 3 pages ago.

Its more likable they will put (in future) the townhall as a retrainer of idle citizens, where they will receive a special equipment based simply in "gold chests" with a required training time. It doesnt make Townhalls cheesy because makes initial units cost +1gold (considering that first is trained at School, then moves to Townhall to receive a BlackMarket weapon).

1) Lewin is about to found the city of Lewingrado. :lol:
2) I pray the gods that Itlerion will never read Lewin's last post. :P
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Lewin

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 06:25

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

There is just one small thing that is repugnant to me: people won't be able to build towards the enemy to lock him up with towers or anything like that. I'd never use a tactic like that because it slows you down, but I think people should be free to use this tactic. On the other hand that kinda ruins the whole PEACE time concept. :P
It's a better suggestion than everything I came up with so I say AYE!
Well, you can still use this tactic OUTSIDE of peacetime. To be honest I don't think you should be allowed to "lock up" players during peacetime when they are powerless to stop you. If you can manage to build towers around their base after peacetime, that's fine with me because they are free to stop you. But using towers to restrict players during peacetime is kind of against the point of it as you said.
Thanks for your opinion :)
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Siegfried

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 08:49

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

@Siegfried, you came a bit late with that idea.
I already wrote it in page 17-18?, and he declined in that moment.
Its important to read the flow of the conversations, even in such advanced threads, from at least 3 pages ago.
I guess you followed the "flow of the conversation", so you know that I posted this idea on page 16 (#10830). and that was what I was referring to. And no, I didn't make a proposal but uesd it to point out that fitting to the gameplay is more important than a non-existent realism.

Reading Lewins ironic answer gives me the impression, that he understood what I meant. It was a good point, so he was not ablte to invalidate it :)
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Lewin

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:21

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

And no, I didn't make a proposal but uesd it to point out that fitting to the gameplay is more important than a non-existent realism.
I agree that gameplay is as important as realism, but this doesn't mean we should start implementing any idea that would add to gameplay but ignore realism. I don't like the idea of pikes becoming pitchforks because it's unrealistic and I don't think it would really improve gameplay much. Some realism can be sacrificed for gameplay when it's a really good idea that would greatly improve gameplay and we really like, but I'm not going to implement every random idea that would help with gameplay but ignore realism.

I think both realism and gameplay are important and I'd rather not compromise much on either. I think we can find solutions that works well for BOTH, and solutions which only satisfy one but not the other are not really worth considering. I hear so many ideas for KaM every day, and I only follow up the ones which I think are very good and fit very well. Why make compromises when adding new features to a game that is already good? It's not like there's some major imbalance we are trying to fix here, it's just some random idea to add a new feature to the game. In my opinion the game is fine without being able to train these units. It would be a nice extra, but only when we find a way that works very well for gameplay and is reasonably realistic. The game will still work perfectly fine without them, TSK was a great game.

And there's no rush to take the first crazy idea suggested... by the time we have the important parts of the game working (AI, file transfer, map editor, etc. so probably 1 year) I will have probably heard a few thousand more suggestions, maybe one of them will be an excellent one ;)

I don't think your point was good because you seemed to be suggesting that realism doesn't matter much and we should just take pretty much anything which works well for gameplay, even if it's quite unrealistic. But I agree that people should also be thinking about gameplay when participating in these discussions, it is very important.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:22

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

@Siegfried

Sure, not everything is realistic in KaM, but that does not mean we should make it more unrealistic. RIght? When you click to make a lance, it says you're making a lance and not a pitchfork. That's a huge difference to me.

Edit: Lewin was faster. :)
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ThibbyRozier

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:27

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

@Siegfried

Sure, not everything is realistic in KaM, but that does not mean we should make it more unrealistic. RIght? When you click to make a lance, it says you're making a lance and not a pitchfork. That's a huge difference to me.

Edit: Lewin was faster. :)
Everybody wants then so badly so.... How about making all the sprites if you want it really, really bad.
Kind regards,
Thimo Braker (ThibbyRozier)

Owner of Thibmo audio productions and theater technician at Hof88 Almelo.
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Lewin

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Sure, not everything is realistic in KaM, but that does not mean we should make it more unrealistic. RIght? When you click to make a lance, it says you're making a lance and not a pitchfork. That's a huge difference to me.
I agree 100% :)
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The Dark Lord

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Well the thing is...

...I don't want it really, really bad.

Honestly, I think it will unbalance the game. I like to see them be added, but not in this way.
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ThibbyRozier

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 11:38

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Well the thing is...

...I don't want it really, really bad.

Honestly, I think it will unbalance the game. I like to see them be added, but not in this way.
I used your post to make mine point at the subject, sorry. x3
But I am like... There are people who want it so badly.
And it can surely be done, but what about all the extra sprites? New weapon flags.
And for a serv to carry the weapon you need about....64 to 70 sprites?
Just to show how much work it will be.
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Thimo Braker (ThibbyRozier)

Owner of Thibmo audio productions and theater technician at Hof88 Almelo.

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