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Opinion about stuff in the English translation?

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Lewin

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Post 30 Aug 2008, 04:22

Yeah, point of defense sounds wrong.

How about:
[code]We hath arrived at the final encampment of the treacherous rebels.
Thou shalt slay all of the rebellious and caddish dwellers here, leaving not a single breathing soul after this glorious battle has come to an end![/quote]

Slay... Hmm... That whole last sentence sounds rather violent. "leaving not a single breathing soul" sounds like it's out of a horror movie!! Still, I guess it is a bit of a slaughter, so that's quite accurate.

Also, I'm not too sure about caddish. It's not a very common word and people may not understand. (I had to look it up, as I wasn't exactly sure of it's meaning) Although, KaM uses lots of words like that, and that's what makes it interesting. So you decide.

Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 30 Aug 2008, 07:48

Hey it's just some words :D
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Lewin

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Post 31 Aug 2008, 05:20

Sorry, I don't understand. Do you think encampment is a good word? If you don't then that's fine, it was just a suggestion.
Other suggestions:
Fortress
Stronghold
Defenses

As for the other suggestions, just ignore them. It doesn't really matter, and I was being too fussy.
Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 31 Aug 2008, 09:00

What I meant was that it shouldn't matter if a few words make the game sound violent.
Oh and stronghold sounds much better than encampment in this case.
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Litude

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Post 31 Aug 2008, 20:25

Oh one thing I've wondered for some time but forgotten to ask until now is whether it's accepted to quote using both the ' and the " symbol? The game uses ' everywhere but I've always thought " was used for correct quoting. Please enlighten me :)
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Lewin

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Post 31 Aug 2008, 23:04

Litude wrote:Oh one thing I've wondered for some time but forgotten to ask until now is whether it's accepted to quote using both the ' and the " symbol? The game uses ' everywhere but I've always thought " was used for correct quoting. Please enlighten me :)

Well, I'm no linguist!! That's a difficult question... I used to think that it didn't matter, as long as you are consistent. (you must use the same type everywhere)

However, I then did some research and found this page. It explains it extremely well and I'd recommend reading it if you are interested in getting it "right".
It seems to say the double quotes are the standard, especially in America. As you are trying to use the American standards I would recommend double quotes. They are what I've always used.
Another good reason for using double quotes is this: If you have are using single quotes and have an apostrophe in the sentence then it will look like the end of the quote. Double quotes fixes this issue.

So really, it's quite complicated but generally double quotes are the standard. I would recommend them.

I have another suggestion: You called the patch 1.6. (great idea, 1.58 SR3 wasn't as good) But I think it should be called 1.60. This fits in with the KaM patch naming system. (e.g. 1.20, 1.50, 1.30, 1.52) 1.6 seems rather short compared to the official patch versions. It's not too late to change is it? (you only just announced the current version name)

I just had a quick look through the text files, and I have yet more suggestions:

Text.LIB (I am using the file from the tutorial patch)
105 - I think it would look better if you put an extra line before the bit about the siege workshop. This is standard through the other descriptions, so why not here? It shouldn't make it too long, as the labourers description is a line longer than that.

112 -
The metallurgist refines gold and iron ore using coal.
-----
The metallurgist uses coal to refines gold and iron ore.
Sounds much better this way around. Kind of confusing otherwise.

505: Now that you know how to rearrange the tutorial settings, would it be possible to put the message for the fisherman's hut in a separate message? My idea: Once you've built the inn it displays this: (or something like this, change it if you want. This is just the general idea, you could do a much better job)
[code]You now need to build a fisherman's hut so that you can catch more fish. Place it close to the water, so that the fisherman doesn't have too walk far. Once it is built you will need to train a fisherman from the schoolhouse to work there. Eventually the supply of fish will run out and then you will need to build a new fisherman's hut at the different water body. (if available)[/quote]
I guess I did a pretty bad job of that, and it's way too long. Could you please make it better job?

Once the fisherman's hut is built it will display the message for the stonemason, but without the fisherman bit on the end.

What do you think of that idea? Is that possible? (can you make it do that?) I think it would be better, as then there is only 1 instruction per message.

I also think that the instructions should continue guiding you all the way though all the buildings available. Then it can say go destroy your enemy. Right now the instructions end about half way through the buildings. A tutorial should show you how to do everything. (including train troops) Maybe I'm wrong...

Finally, could you send me a PM with the basic information on where the tutorial stuff is stored? (I am really curious :wink:)

516:
Minor change to the last sentence:
If you are glorious, the battle tutorial is finished.
----
If you are glorious, then the battle tutorial is complete.

If that's not too long then that would be a worth while change. Complete is a better word, and it looks more official with the "then".

Setup.LIB:
300: I think the header should say something like:
FAN PATCH 1.60 "SERVICE RELEASE 3":
It was a bit short before, and not everyone will not that 1.60 is also called Service Release 3.
I also know some of the names/email addresses of people which you listed as nicknames. I will PM them to you. (for privacy reasons)

Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 01 Sep 2008, 06:01

Lewin wrote:Well, I'm no linguist!! That's a difficult question... I used to think that it didn't matter, as long as you are consistent. (you must use the same type everywhere)

However, I then did some research and found this page. It explains it extremely well and I'd recommend reading it if you are interested in getting it "right".
It seems to say the double quotes are the standard, especially in America. As you are trying to use the American standards I would recommend double quotes. They are what I've always used.
Another good reason for using double quotes is this: If you have are using single quotes and have an apostrophe in the sentence then it will look like the end of the quote. Double quotes fixes this issue.

So really, it's quite complicated but generally double quotes are the standard. I would recommend them.

Hmm... I guess all single quotes should be changed to double quotes then?

Lewin wrote:I have another suggestion: You called the patch 1.6. (great idea, 1.58 SR3 wasn't as good) But I think it should be called 1.60. This fits in with the KaM patch naming system. (e.g. 1.20, 1.50, 1.30, 1.52) 1.6 seems rather short compared to the official patch versions. It's not too late to change is it? (you only just announced the current version name)

Actually you're wrong on this one. It is 1.2, 1.3 and 1.5. There are no extra zeros at the end, hence me not having a zero there.

Lewin wrote:I just had a quick look through the text files, and I have yet more suggestions:

Text.LIB (I am using the file from the tutorial patch)
105 - I think it would look better if you put an extra line before the bit about the siege workshop. This is standard through the other descriptions, so why not here? It shouldn't make it too long, as the labourers description is a line longer than that.

Right, changed

Lewin wrote:112 -
The metallurgist refines gold and iron ore using coal.
-----
The metallurgist uses coal to refines gold and iron ore.
Sounds much better this way around. Kind of confusing otherwise.

Yeah but refines to refine :P

Lewin wrote:505: Now that you know how to rearrange the tutorial settings, would it be possible to put the message for the fisherman's hut in a separate message? My idea: Once you've built the inn it displays this: (or something like this, change it if you want. This is just the general idea, you could do a much better job)
[code]You now need to build a fisherman's hut so that you can catch more fish. Place it close to the water, so that the fisherman doesn't have too walk far. Once it is built you will need to train a fisherman from the schoolhouse to work there. Eventually the supply of fish will run out and then you will need to build a new fisherman's hut at the different water body. (if available)

I guess I did a pretty bad job of that, and it's way too long. Could you please make it better job?

Once the fisherman's hut is built it will display the message for the stonemason, but without the fisherman bit on the end.

What do you think of that idea? Is that possible? (can you make it do that?) I think it would be better, as then there is only 1 instruction per message.[/quote]
Should be possible to add, though it will mean changing one of the messages at start to be sent as a normal goal as I'm using all the space there is. Shouldn't matter though.

Lewin wrote:I also think that the instructions should continue guiding you all the way though all the buildings available. Then it can say go destroy your enemy. Right now the instructions end about half way through the buildings. A tutorial should show you how to do everything. (including train troops) Maybe I'm wrong...

Yeah it should, but the space there is for coding the messages is very limited. If you managed to relocate the messages to another place with more empty space using assembly, this could be considered.

Lewin wrote:Finally, could you send me a PM with the basic information on where the tutorial stuff is stored? (I am really curious :wink:)

Will do.

Lewin wrote:516:
Minor change to the last sentence:
If you are glorious, the battle tutorial is finished.
----
If you are glorious, then the battle tutorial is complete.

If that's not too long then that would be a worth while change. Complete is a better word, and it looks more official with the "then".

Complete sounds better than finished, but are you sure that then is really needed?

Lewin wrote:Setup.LIB:
300: I think the header should say something like:
FAN PATCH 1.60 "SERVICE RELEASE 3":
It was a bit short before, and not everyone will not that 1.60 is also called Service Release 3.

Yeah it definitely should.

Lewin wrote:I also know some of the names/email addresses of people which you listed as nicknames. I will PM them to you. (for privacy reasons)

Should start working on the list for the next beta. Thanks for the information!
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Lewin

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Post 02 Sep 2008, 08:25

Litude wrote:Hmm... I guess all single quotes should be changed to double quotes then?

I think so. Where are they used other than multiplayer messages?

Litude wrote:Actually you're wrong on this one. It is 1.2, 1.3 and 1.5. There are no extra zeros at the end, hence me not having a zero there.

Oh, oops. :oops:

Litude wrote:Yeah but refines to refine :P

Yes, oops again.

Litude wrote:Should be possible to add, though it will mean changing one of the messages at start to be sent as a normal goal as I'm using all the space there is. Shouldn't matter though.

The way I see it:
We have a set number of messages we can program in. Therefore, all of the messages sent at the start (the first 3) should be done with the normal system. (it makes no difference as far as I can see) That should give us a few more to use. There might even be enough to extend the instructions further.
Also, with your discovery of the goal based messages, we can probably make a message be displayed once the tannery is built. The goal type 0 used in the tutorial requires you to build the tannery. (at least it did in TSK) So if we tell it to display a message with that then we have one more free message to use. That way we can give some basic instructions on weapon building. What do you think?

Litude wrote:Yeah it should, but the space there is for coding the messages is very limited. If you managed to relocate the messages to another place with more empty space using assembly, this could be considered.

Relocation would be basically impossible. What about my suggestion above? (that gives us 4 extra messages, although 1 will be needed for the fisherman's hut)

Litude wrote:Complete sounds better than finished, but are you sure that then is really needed?

Not really, it kind of makes it sound more neat. However, leaving it out might make it fit in with the KaM style more.

Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 03 Sep 2008, 13:41

I split the talk about the tutorial and added it to the old tutorial topic.
By the way, have you checked how the distribution of wares menu looks like now?
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Lewin

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Post 06 Sep 2008, 09:06

Litude wrote:I split the talk about the tutorial and added it to the old tutorial topic.

Oops, I'll try to stick to the topic. :wink:

Litude wrote:By the way, have you checked how the distribution of wares menu looks like now?

What has changed? The only difference I can see is the text, (no longer boards) and I think it is fine. Ideally we should use the same word for timber, (you are using wood at one spot, as it is shorter) but it makes little difference. Was there something else I missed?
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Litude

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Post 09 Sep 2008, 05:47

Open up the game and check it? That one string still talking about wood was a bug and has now been changed to timber.
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Lewin

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Post 10 Sep 2008, 01:23

Litude wrote:Open up the game and check it? That one string still talking about wood was a bug and has now been changed to timber.

Oh good, I thought you did that on purpose. I have checked it, and it looks the same. Have you made some mysterious change that I didn't notice? It looks the same to me.
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Litude

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Post 10 Sep 2008, 05:19

I changed the lines from Iron distribution -> Distribution of|Iron
Makes the resource word appear on the next line allowing longer names for resources and it doesn't look that bad.
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Lewin

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Post 11 Sep 2008, 10:39

Oops, I didn't even notice! Yes, it looks fine! (testified by the fact that I didn't even notice the difference) Much better because you can now fit longer titles such as Timber. (not that that is a very long word or anything...)
Well done, I never thought of putting a new line for some reason.
Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 17 Sep 2008, 23:07

Apparently, in the German version of the game the tutorial messages are written using "middle age speak". I'm assuming that the reason for the messages being plain English was because there were two English translators working on the game and the one who started the translation didn't really know how to speak the "old" English so he went with the plain and simple one (also explains why the earlier messages had so many errors). When the campaign was to be translated, the second better translator did the job. Just speculating :D.
My question being, should the tutorial messages be rewritten in old English after all? :oops:
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