Knights and Merchants.net Forum

As always, thank you for your work on the remake


Anyway, I played TPR mission 3 and I noticed that the objectives are a little messed up. If you kill all enemy soldiers, then you lose. Now that is kinda backwards isn't it?
I tried destroying all the enemy buildings (which was very hard with enemy archers shooting at my men ) but I still didn't win.

I had the same thing

According to Lewin, the problem is that the 'Win'- and 'Defeat'-conditions have the same priority. But actually it should check the Win-conditions first, then the Defeat-conditions..

So you lose if you win, then why don't you just destroy all of your buildings, now you lose so you win....

No, you lose either way.

At the moment, Mission 3 TPR cannot be won in the Remake.

Yes, that seemed obvious, I was just trolling.

I open the mission and yes, the program has a fault.

!ADD_LOST_GOAL 3 0 0 0 //
!ADD_LOST_GOAL 6 0 0 1 //
!ADD_LOST_GOAL 6 0 0 2 //

That means that you should defense the houses from players 3 and 4... and so you can?t win in this mission. I have changed it for me..but I think I dont upload it, because Lewin will fix maybe this problem up to the next update of the demo!?!?

No, the goals are correct. You haven't read the mission briefing, did you?

You're supposed to only kill their soldiers.

So it is the way I said it was: it's a bug.

No it is not correct. Yes you are right sorry. But this script means:

Defense the houses of player 1(yes, this is right)
Defense the militars of player 2(this is not right)
Defense the militars of player 3 (and that, too)

I think, it is an little mistake...it should be named, as Defense the militas of player 4, I think. Because this is the village in west..your friend!??!

Three things:

1) I'm having a hard time understandig you. Your last two messages say the exact opposite.

2) Why is the mission working right in original KaM? The mission file was never altered in the Remake?

3) I asked Lewin. He said it was a bug in the Remake.

Still, I don't understand why i am losing after slaying all enemy soldiers...

It IS correct. We are using the mission scripts and other data files from KaM (SR3 B7) so there should not be any mistakes in the script. Please read the briefings. It says "Spare the civilian country folk and fight only the enemy soldiers who are stationed there." Goal 6 is "Military Buildings and Troops". This means if you destroy his military buildings as well as his troops you will lose. Military buildings are defined as: "Coal mine, Weapons Workshop, Tannery, Armor workshop, Stables, Iron mine, Iron smithy, Weapons smithy, Armor smithy, Barracks, Town hall and Vehicles Workshop" (I tested every building in KaM years ago when making my mission editor so if you want to argue about this definition, test it in KaM yourself)
So if you destroy all of those, you are just killing innocent civilians who were forced to make weapons for the rebels. You must destroy the troops but not his village.
It is just because r2411 the goal "military buildings and troops" was treated as just being "all troops". Therefore the victory and defeat conditions were actually treated as the same, except that to win you would have had to have destroyed the armies of BOTH enemies, but to lose you only need to destroy one of them. So as soon as you killed one enemy's army, the condition survival condition "protect military buildings and troops of player X" was not satisfied because we were only using the troops part, not the buildings. But it's fixed now, so thanks for reporting
I have made it so a victory will overwrite a defeat as this is the case in KaM.

Thanks Lewin. Just make sure that one still loses in a "troops only battle mission" when all his men starve to death, otherwise people could just sit back until everyone starves to death

That's an interesting point... But it will depend on the condition of your troop as that is random. Your comment prompted me to retest it in KaM, and it's not the way I'd thought:
- If you define no goals at all, then you win
- If you define victory and defeat goals that both trigger at the same time (e.g. destroy enemy buildings and protect your own buildings in a battle mission with no buildings) then you lose.
That's quite weird but the second one makes sense for the reason you gave. I've changed the Remake so that defeats always override victories, (and left a comment explaining my discoveries) since having no goals is kind of pointless anyway...
Thanks again

No problem! Glad I could help with something!