Service Release 3 - Beta testing has started!

[Litude]

As a whole there is only one big mistake in the sentace. That is the word mats. What is that referring to? I think they mean sausages or pigs, (as that's what the butcher deals with) but mats certainly doesn't mean that! (a mat is something on the floor, like a small bit of carpet)

Oh I'm just so great at making the dumbest typos at the most appropriate situations. It was supposed to say meat :oops:

Butchery is a better word than Butcher's. The word "pigs" in KaM is not the best translation. It should really be pig meat or pig carcases, as pig implies a whole pig and not a gutted, skinned one. But as that is what they're called in the game I'll leave it be.

Hmm... That first part of the script was there in the very original, i.e. it wasn't written by me but by some employed translator. I don't really know if I should start modifying the original scripts too much unless it's a blatant typo or grammatical error. This is because there are quite a lot of lines that are using kind of strange namings. Besides, Butcher's is really the official name of the building.

The next line you'd written was ok, but I made it sound more old fashioned (thy means your in old English, and nigh means near) If you'd rather the tutorial to be more modern, then just use "your" and "near".

Directly from the briefing of Mission 2 TSK IIRC My early draft of the line also used exactly that as the end, but when I checked each message used in the tutorial, it seemed to me that the messages all used modernized English and outright tried to avoid to use the old English words that are quite common in the rest of the messages and briefings in the game. I guess it was because the tutorial was supposed to be a light start?

Hope this helps, ask me if you have any more queries. (I think I'm the only regular native English speaker on the English fansite. Weird isn't it?

You know, I actually had exactly the same thought when I originally wrote that query for verification. I first wrote a native English speaker, but then started thinking that we only have one active native English speaking member so I changed it to good. There used to be some people from the UK and US as well, but I guess I scared them off

I have a suggestion to make for the tutorial: You should NOT be able to build any buildings past the tannery!!!!!! I intruded my cousin to KaM, and I helped him through the tutorial. I was supprised to find that you could build EVERYTHING!! I think you should give them more troops to start off with but limit the buildings. When my cousin was playing he wanted to know where to build the gold, iron and coal mines. I had to explain to him that it must be a bug as there was none of them to mine on this map. (except a bit of coal, which is useless without gold or iron) Something I really liked about TSK was the way it introduced the buildings and troops one mission at a time. It was exciting the first time playing to see what the new buildings were like. (I especially remember great excitement in our house when my two brothers and I started mission 9 and found that we had barbarians!! We spent ages clicking on them to see what they said) I think that other users should enjoy this process too, and the tutorial should reveal no more buildings to you than you can build in mission 2 TSK.

You are so right about that part. I still vaguely remember the day when I beat the first mission in The Shattered Kingdom (no TPR at that time ) and when I started the second mission I saw a new building appear allowing me to create armor. Recruiting your first axe fighter And then when getting to mission 9 TSK searching every corner of every building for the possibility of barbarians actually being trainable
Yeah the mines should probably be disabled. I thought they might have had somekind of "teaser" function of things to come in the tutorial but I don't know if my theory actually makes any sense at all And I guess you mean with past the tannery that you still should be capable of building the armory workshop?

Great work with the patching, I still haven't had time to test it but I will at some point!

Thanks, and I do have intentions to keep the beta running for some time as I don't want any bugs to surface later.[/quote]

What does TK think of this? Does he know?

He knew about my initial development of the patch, but I haven't told him yet that I picked up the patch again after putting it on hold. It seemed like he really did have interest to bring forth a third patch despite only fixing a few smaller things.
I do think he's a bit too strict regarding certain things in patching though, he completely opposed adding even the slightest amount of food to Mission 6 TPR saying it was modding the game and not patching. Still I'm going to notify him soon and I hope he'll help me with the translation of stuff to German.

@kuba111000
Mission 9

Iron mine is not blocked

Noted

Western brown enemy doesn't make leather - I had similar problem when making a mission - adding butchery should help.

Okay, will look into this. Don't like the idea of adding buildings though, but will at least give them 9000 leather in case I won't add a butcher's.

Weird colour of northern purple enemy (one digit is missing)

Weird stuff, never really looked close at the minimap it seems.

Disconnected armor smithy in the northern village.

Noted

As reported before, unused buildings in western village.

Yeah

Gold mine can't be built in one place.

Will need to look into.

Purple enemy didn't attack - but - as in the story, we have to get back the castle, so the enemy should protect it at all costs - so it's ok.

Hmm, I think the northern purple teams was supposed to attack according to the scripts but I might be wrong. It does sound logical that they would concentrate on the defence though.

But neither of the purple teams ran out of iron in this mission? I had some notes written down that this might have happen and "needs more testing" I'll take a look myself as well.

Mission 10

Gold mines can't be built at all on one mountain

Need to take a look, though IIRC there was quite enough gold in that mission, but I think I'll still fix it.

Missing road piece under our ally's armor workshop

Noted

Our ally has almost no timber

Yeah and I always thought this was intentional because there really isn't a single mission in the game where your ally doesn't have something that prevents him from being the player to play the mission for you. I think I won't change this, but if someone here opposes do express your opinion and I will reconsider.

Skin bug like before - but now he has also some in the storehouse, so it's not so serious

Ally lacking tannery?

No soldier limit causes AI infantry storming infinitely! With this bug, when some enemies aren't defeat at the start of the mission, the mission can be almost impossible (one soldier come to my base, when he's killed, more are coming, they stay in my base and kill my people).

(brown enemy attacks)

So do you mean that because the purple team doesn't attack this happens? Or why? Sorry I didn't quite understand why this occurs

Mission 12

Just started testing, and found another critical bug: at the start, blue player kills all soldiers of dark green player! (dark green can't kill blue).

Huh what, are the AI players fighting eachother? I can't remember this happening in the original and I don't think I changed any diplomacy stances, but I'll take a look.

Thanks a lot kuba111000 for doing the throughout testing and thanks lewin for helping in the English messages!

[kuba11100]

9.

Weird stuff, never really looked close at the minimap it seems.

Minimap colour is ok, flags are weird flashing.

But neither of the purple teams ran out of iron in this mission? I had some notes written down that this might have happen and "needs more testing" I'll take a look myself as well.

Both ran out of it without attacking.
10.

So do you mean that because the purple team doesn't attack this happens? Or why? Sorry I didn't quite understand why this occurs

KaM has a limit of units on map. When there are too many units, AI infantry (maybe not only) leave defense position and run through the map (and storm). If you still don't know what am I talking about try to play this mission or another (single mission with 5 enemies) and don't attack the enemy.
So add a limit of soldiers for AI groups and it should be good.
Also, I've noticed that blue enemy is training iron soldiers and militias, look at this butchery-tannery bug.
11. OK
12 .

Huh what, are the AI players fighting eachother? I can't remember this happening in the original and I don't think I changed any diplomacy stances, but I'll take a look.

At the start attack blue enemy kills dark green enemy, but dark green can't kill the blue. Blue and grey are allied.
(missing alliance of players 2 3 and 4 with 5)

[Thunderwolf]

Yeah and I always thought this was intentional because there really isn't a single mission in the game where your ally doesn't have something that prevents him from being the player to play the mission for you. I think I won't change this, but if someone here opposes do express your opinion and I will reconsider.

maybe they should get a sawmill and some tree-trunks, so that they last a little bit longer.

[kuba11100]

maybe they should get a sawmill and some tree-trunks, so that they last a little bit longer.

Or more wood and the soldier limit, for example 25?

I forget about one in 10: disconnected fisherman's huts

12.
- Tannery bug, so they make only iron soldiers and militias
- Blue has only 28 soldiers (3 groups on crossbowmen 2 of pikemen and sword fighters) and he's not training new.
Also, take a look on the minimap colour of blue. In my opinion it's too "snowy". (230 or 1 would be better).

[Litude]

Mission 9 TPR

Minimap colour is ok, flags are weird flashing.

Fixed

Both ran out of it without attacking.

Added some more iron. Do tell if you feel the mission is too difficult with the added wares.


Mission 10 TPR

KaM has a limit of units on map. When there are too many units, AI infantry (maybe not only) leave defense position and run through the map (and storm). If you still don't know what am I talking about try to play this mission or another (single mission with 5 enemies) and don't attack the enemy.
So add a limit of soldiers for AI groups and it should be good.

The thing is, all enemies are supposed to attack in that mission so I don't see why the soldier limit breaks?

Also, I've noticed that blue enemy is training iron soldiers and militias, look at this butchery-tannery bug.

They have a tannery, but I added some starting skins for them.

maybe they should get a sawmill and some tree-trunks, so that they last a little bit longer.

Don't know really... Need to think a bit about that. It just seems weird when pretty much every opponent that uses wooden soldiers have 9000 timber at start whilst your ally has 20. Makes me think this weak ally was intended.

I forget about one in 10: disconnected fisherman's huts

This seems to be intentional. I think this was done so that the AI wouldn't empty all the fish from the sea before you reach it. Won't be fixed.


Mission 12 TPR

At the start attack blue enemy kills dark green enemy, but dark green can't kill the blue. Blue and grey are allied.
(missing alliance of players 2 3 and 4 with 5)

Fixed

Tannery bug, so they make only iron soldiers and militias

Again, they both have tanneries. Added some starting skins though.

Blue has only 28 soldiers (3 groups on crossbowmen 2 of pikemen and sword fighters) and he's not training new.

Don't know where you got that 28 soldiers from. For me it seems like they have at least 40. Can't make the team train soldiers without adding equipment into the storehouse or the barracks which could make the opponent too hard to defeat. I disallowed training of recruits for this team.

Also, take a look on the minimap colour of blue. In my opinion it's too "snowy". (230 or 1 would be better).

It seems like this minimap color was used for the blue team all over in TPR. Granted, it's quite hard to notice the units but I'll keep it as it is.


Expect beta 2 to be available real soon! I won't include any text fixes before the new version of Lewin's Lib Decoder gets released.

[Litude]

Okay, beta 2 is now available. The bugs that have been reported should all have been fixed unless I specifically said I wouldn't change it. You can find the files from the first post.
Some points of note to previous beta testers:
- Did not do anything about the team in mission 3 TPR not being interested in training serfs.
- I left the iron ore in the secondary storehouse in mission 4 TPR untouched. Thought it might have had a function as a teaser.
- I did not change the ownership of certain buildings in the base of the brown enemy in mission 9 TPR. I think it was intentional for the buildings to belong to another team.
- I did not change the gold mountain in mission 9 TPR, so you still can't build the gold mine into the one place
- No text changes were done yet. I am awaiting the next release of the Lib Decoder by Lewin before I venture here.

There were a few unreported bugs I discovered that I fixed which you can find in the changelog. Further, it seems like mission 5 TPR and mission 14 TPR had fully visible maps from the start in the first beta, these have also been fixed.

[Lewin]

The thing is, all enemies are supposed to attack in that mission so I don't see why the soldier limit breaks?

Well, say that they all were one troops bellow the number needed before they attack? That could quite easily bring them over the limit. We don't really understand this limit thing anyway. My guess is that soldiers (or maybe all units) are stored in an array, and the maximum number is 256. So once you go over this, really weird stuff begins to happen. Maybe make them attack sooner or something?
With the tutorial message thing: Currently my suggestion is:

  Code:

Now you need to build a butcher's and a tannery to process the meat and the skins. Once you've completed these two buildings, it will be up to you to defeat the two enemy encampments near your current location.[/quote] I agree with everything you said, and meat is probably the best word, (makes the most sense) although that's not the official name of that ware. Yeah, the whole tutorial would need to be old English if you were to do that, and some people may have trouble understanding that. Let me know if you think that is ok. As for blocking buildings: Mines should defiantly be blocked. I also think that the following buildings should be too: - Watch tower (you first get to build this in mission 7, and that was very exciting. Kind of spoils it if you build it here. Also, it isn't very useful as the enemy does attack) - Vehicles workshop (You can't mine iron, so what is the use of it?) - Town Hall (maybe I'm trying to make this too much like TSK, but I don't think you should get this building) - Stables (You only get this in mission 4, so I think it shouldn't be allowed here) I almost think that the weapons workshop, armoury and barracks should be blocked. (and give them more troops to start with to defeat the enemy) Also, I seem to remember that there are 20 horses in the tutorial storehouse? They should be removed, other wise they can build scouts. (which I disagree with) Let me know what you think of these ideas, and just tell me if you disagree on anything. I feel honoured that you're waiting for my tool! Should be out later today... Lewin.

[kuba11100]

The thing is, all enemies are supposed to attack in that mission so I don't see why the soldier limit breaks?

There are four enemies making a lot of soldiers, they reached too many of them before attack. Maybe adding a bigger recruit training delay to some teams or making enemy attacking earlier will be a good idea? (only brown attacked before that bug)

Don't know where you got that 28 soldiers from. For me it seems like they have at least 40. Can't make the team train soldiers without adding equipment into the storehouse or the barracks which could make the opponent too hard to defeat. I disallowed training of recruits for this team.

Maybe you accidentaly changed something in the initial attack, so they took bigger groups? Anyway, there should be more than 40, it's too easy.

About the tutorial - if I remember correctly SR2 makes all of that mistakes, like allowing mines, watchtowers, stables. In demo/original game they all were blocked.

[Litude]

Well, say that they all were one troops bellow the number needed before they attack? That could quite easily bring them over the limit. We don't really understand this limit thing anyway. My guess is that soldiers (or maybe all units) are stored in an array, and the maximum number is 256. So once you go over this, really weird stuff begins to happen. Maybe make them attack sooner or something?

Yeah I'm going to make them attack sooner if this is the problem. I can't imagine any reason why the total soldier amount would be stored in an array, I guess the problem is caused by something completely different.

With the tutorial message thing: Currently my suggestion is:

  Code:

Now you need to build a butcher's and a tannery to process the meat and the skins. Once you've completed these two buildings, it will be up to you to defeat the two enemy encampments near your current location.[/quote][/quote] Edit: Yeah, I'll use that, but change completed to constructed. [quote="lewin"]- Watch tower (you first get to build this in mission 7, and that was very exciting. Kind of spoils it if you build it here. Also, it isn't very useful as the enemy does attack) - Vehicles workshop (You can't mine iron, so what is the use of it?) - Town Hall (maybe I'm trying to make this too much like TSK, but I don't think you should get this building) - Stables (You only get this in mission 4, so I think it shouldn't be allowed here)[/quote] I will block all those buildings because they were not available in the demo tutorial. [quote="lewin"]I almost think that the weapons workshop, armoury and barracks should be blocked. (and give them more troops to start with to defeat the enemy) Also, I seem to remember that there are 20 horses in the tutorial storehouse? They should be removed, other wise they can build scouts. (which I disagree with) Let me know what you think of these ideas, and just tell me if you disagree on anything.[/quote] I made to decision to recreate the tutorial as it is in the demo and there you are allowed to build military buildings. Besides, the mission could turn out too difficult if I started changing this stuff around. The 20 horses will stay so you can train a few additional scouts, kind of a teaser like the leather armor in the first TSK mission. [quote="kuba11100"]There are four enemies making a lot of soldiers, they reached too many of them before attack. Maybe adding a bigger recruit training delay to some teams or making enemy attacking earlier will be a good idea? (only brown attacked before that bug)[/quote] Changing the recruit training time would be too complicated, I'll just reduce the amount of troops needed for an attack. [quote="kuba11100"]Maybe you accidentaly changed something in the initial attack, so they took bigger groups? Anyway, there should be more than 40, it's too easy.[/quote] I don't know, but please try the beta 2 version as the team was completely bugged in the first release anyway. [quote="kuba11100"]About the tutorial - if I remember correctly SR2 makes all of that mistakes, like allowing mines, watchtowers, stables. In demo/original game they all were blocked.[/quote] Yeah, the demo tutorial is the least buggy tutorial of them all so I will follow it.

[kuba11100]

Mission 14 TPR:
Problem with food like in 6, but fortunately soldiers were alive.
After about 3 hours the gray enemy in the middle of the map soldiers started to run and storm. Soon after that another teams started, so the soldier limit should be strict.

Suggestion for mission 13 TPR:
When fighting, some of my knights started to be hungry. It's not a big problem (the fight isn't so long), but when hungry soldier fight, the messages telling about hungry soldiers is showing up until the fight's over. It's very annoying, many incoming messages coming at the same time are so loud...

[Litude]

Mission 14 TPR:
Problem with food like in 6, but fortunately soldiers were alive.
After about 3 hours the gray enemy in the middle of the map soldiers started to run and storm. Soon after that another teams started, so the soldier limit should be strict.

Noted both problems.

Suggestion for mission 13 TPR:
When fighting, some of my knights started to be hungry. It's not a big problem (the fight isn't so long), but when hungry soldier fight, the messages telling about hungry soldiers is showing up until the fight's over. It's very annoying, many incoming messages coming at the same time are so loud...

The only thing I could do about it (which I by no means will) would be to remove the sound effect completely. Can't you just turn your speakers off or lower the volume? I don't really remember this being a problem in mission 13 TPR, moreso in mission 11 TPR (haven't played mission 13 on a long time though).

[kuba11100]

- Did not do anything about the team in mission 3 TPR not being interested in training serfs.

Tested the mission again and it was ok now - it seems to be a random bug. I think it was because of using F8 - weird things happen when it's used too much.

---edited 31.07 17.50---
4 TPR.
Whole map is visible from the start.
Northern-east enemy's defense radius is also too big when keeping soldiers near 2nd storehouse (eastern green's ok)
Swine farm wares to tannery bug in the northern enemy.

And the most mysterious thing:

:!: Running-storming bug in a very small army! After attack of eastern and northern-east enemies, when their armies were small, it happened! In east green it happened twice - once it stopped, but happened again. What is really strange, the both northern enemies (one with the whole town, one training only bowmen) weren't affected - but their armies were much bigger (loooooong line of militias...).

I'm still discovering new bugs, described somewhere or not... Am I unlucky? Some are gone, new were coming when playing on different machines.

I'll test it once again, not pressing F8 any time... maybe this is a reason :evil:.

---edited once again 31.07 22.10---
Tried to fix the miner's description in Polish version with hex editor - it seems like there's no capital letter z with dot above in that font.
Also, there's the same "extremely bright" too long text - "Najjas'niej" is better. (s' is one letter - encoding again)

A bit offtopic: does anybody know what is causing the running-storming soldiers bug? Too many units on the map? F8? Both?

[Lewin]

Hello everyone,
This is something that's been bothering me for a while, the new TPR troops use old voices not unique ones. This sounds really tacky. However, it's quite easy to change!!! In the KM exe file the folders for speech are defined, in the order of troops used in the mission codes. You can change these values easily. (I proved this by making rouges sound like axemen)
So: Does anyone else think it's a good idea to change these voices? Of course, we'd need to record new ones, but that could be arranged.
It may sound crazy but have a think about it.
Let me know what you think. If you agree then I would be happy to do some of the voices, and my brother might too. Or do you think this would be better as a mod? Personally, I think it'd be great to have unique voices for all the troops, but that's just my opinion.
Lewin.

[Litude]

@kuba11100: Thanks for the report, will have to do a check on those.
@Lewin: Heh, feel free to try We'd also need someone to create German and Polish sounds if we are adding it to one language (Dutch version uses English voice-overs).

[Lewin]

@Lewin: Heh, feel free to try We'd also need someone to create German and Polish sounds if we are adding it to one language (Dutch version uses English voice-overs).

Ok, I will try it out. Me and my brother will record one sounds for each category. (attack, move, halt, etc.) Then I'll send them to you and see what you think. I might have a bit of an Australian accent, but I'll try to hide it. If you don't like them then we can scrap the idea. If you think it's ok then I'll spend some more time on it and maybe try a few different microphones and accents, etc.
As for other languages, we have a few options:
- We find someone else to do it (someone native to that country)
- We just leave it as is in those languages (so only the English version has the new voices)
I could probably do the German one, as I have studied it (and so has my brother) so I could get the accent ok. But I'd recommend finding a real German to do it.
Also, I'll try to make the siege equipment make sound too. I'm thinking some kind of trundling noise, or clunks like wood being knocked together. (similar to Warcraft III or Age of Empires) I hate the way they make no noise, it's hard to tell if they understood you sometimes. (as much as a unmanned catapult can understand you...)
Lewin.