Scripting demo release candidate

[pawel95]

1.) Sorry for my not perfect Bug report. I saw on your google page that it was confusing, because this "empty" page isn´t visible only in the TPR missions, I only started playing on this RC at the TPR, so I posted it wrongly. The empty page is everywhere visibe.

Low Priority

2.I) About my stretching. Ok I agree with Lewin that it wouldnt be that nice to have the half of the screen blocked with the message box. However maybe it would be possible to enlarge them up to the right side, but make it "movable" for the vertical side(Like it is with the MP Chat), so player can decide for themselves if they need "more place"(what isnt also really needed, because normaly you close the message box after you read that some person is missing in your city) or the place is just ok.

or

2.II) just like I said to make a small box in the setting menu to allow people to switch between the old and the new system, because I think there are more people in the official release, wanting the game "more orignal"

And Lewin, you must know that every player has an own liking/taste :

But I don't know why you'd want to, the new scroll image looks awesome IMO (the old one was really grey and dull)

These things are not that important so I just marked them with a yellow color.

3.)What Matt and others mentioned is the most important thing I think.
The idea is really nice, that bowmen need to finish their reload when you want to "cheat" on towers or "cheat" with the stop button(faster killing of enemy´s troops), because the actual system also forbids these cheating things, but ranged units will be just "useless"(bit exaggerated).

I dont know if it is possible to script this nicely into the game, but it would bring the "good balance from older RC" back.
Shield units came back into game, but ranged units would be banned with the actual system, I think



pawel95

[Lewin]

2.II) just like I said to make a small box in the setting menu to allow people to switch between the old and the new system, because I think there are more people in the official release, wanting the game "more orignal"

We get a lot of complaints that the old KaM message system is hard to use, you end up with lots of messages piled up like spam and they're hard to manage. The message log is our attempt to improve that. We'll look at ways to make it better, for example only appearing when the first message arrives, making it more obvious that you can click on items to take you to the location, etc. We don't want to have options to enable/disable every single new feature we implement, we want to improve the new features so that most players like them.

And Lewin, you must know that every player has an own liking/taste :

But I don't know why you'd want to, the new scroll image looks awesome IMO (the old one was really grey and dull)

Whether the scroll is dull grey or yellowish seems very unimportant to me. The new scroll fits with the KaM style and it's much more detailed and less dull, so I'm not sure why people would object to it.

[pawel95]

Yeah ok. The color or the style isnt the problem. It looks awesome for me,too. Also with the Red "X" its really nicely. However like Ben says in the older posts the gap looks at some resolutions "unprofessional to me" and I just thing this is the point
However its like I said not important for this moment.

[Ravior]

Hello. I've this ai here (you can see it in the screenshot) with one attack with the settings you see in this.
In my opinion, the ai should attack after 30 seconds in the game. But it doesnt. What did I do wrong? How do I need to set it so that it works?

[pawel95]

Try to set the delay button on 30 not on 300 ?!

I think I know why you have set it wrong, because in Lewins older Editor that weren´t seconds but 1/10 seconds, right?


Btw checking this thing I wanted to ask the remake team, if its possible to add also or to replace the + and - buttons with a normal box, where you can put the number with the keyboard.
Because it will be really hard to click 200 times on the "+" When you want to attack at position: (X;Y) (100;100) ? Would be nice



pawel95

[Ravior]

I was told that the setting is in game ticks, which are 10 per second, so 300 would mean in 30 seconds... but ok I'll try

/edit: Wow that worked. Funny. It was lewin who said to me that its ticks, not seconds ^^ Thanks!

[pawel95]

I edited my post, look at it. I think lewin told you about his "older" editor, which wasnt in the Remake

Have fun to work on your map.


pawel95

[Pizzaisgood]

Hey ho ,
As far as i can see there are a lot of nice changes but also some changes that ruined the game for me and some other people .
I´ll start with the nice changes like the better working farms. It makes leatherstrategies much stronger because you save precious time by needing less farms to run the full production.

Also that Knights would continue chasing archers once they hit them is a really nice change , because like that you can focus on more important things on the battlefield than
clicking at the same group of archers all the time to make the Knight continuing to attack them .

The new regrouping of soldiers is a really nice change imo because like that you wont have these annoying problems with rangeunits messing up their formation because one of them died.

The new marketvalues are good because they fixed the big food for corn marketabuse , but still there are some big problems with the market which i will point out later.

Ofcourse the new possible gamemodes look really interesting and im sure they will bring much more variety into the game which is very good.

The possibility of changing the speed for both peacetime and after peacetime is a good tool to make the game faster and is for sure a good thing ,
but i really dont think that x3 speed is necessary because its just to fast to control anything properly . I would suggest a speedup between x1 and x2 by taking 0.2 steps.
Also i noticed that some computers cant handle the fast speed and cause lags.

Now something about the new possibility of taking out weapons from the barracks and block weapons in the barracks. Its a really good change but it brings some problems with the market with it.Now you can
trade axe for horse for example which can be in combination with rushstrats really imbalanced. Things like 40 knights after pt are kind of easy to make now and will make things like 3 people rushing one guy with 120 knights
really likely. So i think there really needs to be a rebalance with wooden weapons in the market because they are really easy to make and have a really good value.

About the thing with the reloading of archers there definetly needs to be a change because the way they need to reload before they can move again can be really devastating for archers.
I would propose something like a cooldown for archers to shoot again , so if you shoot with your rangeunit once you have to wait the reload time to be able to shoot again . So this cooldown time will run while they are standing
and reloading like normal or while they are moving and no visual reloading is visible. Like that you should be able to have full control of your rangeunits again because they dont have to end the reloadanimation but therefore have
the reloadtime in their mind and can just shoot again when this time is over and like that skipping the reloadtime causing them to shoot faster is not possible anymore.

And now what really should be changed back is the thing with the unlocking of quarrys and woodcutters after the school.
It really ruined one of the best maps in KaM - Golden Cliffs . This map is made for the normal order of school-inn-quarry-woodcutter-sawmill. So i think it should be the decision of the mapmaker which buildings should be unlocked
and which should be not. Im sure this change just had the aim to make the start faster and to generalize the start for all maps so people wont be confused about the different starts in different maps but i think this problems can be
solved different. The starting speed is now solved anyway by the possibility of speeding up the game itself and the different start-buildingorder can maybe be noted in the mapdescription, so people will know what awaits them.

All in all i can say that you guys really did a good job here and im looking forward to continue the testing of the new rc´s but i must say that the new possibility of marketabuse, the reloading of rangeunits and
the new buildorder at start kind of make me not want to play the rc any further because it is no fun for me anymore and im sure im not the only one with this oppinion because many people on teamspeak showed same oppinion about
the changes. But once again you guys really made also a lot of good changes in this rc which will make the game better in many ways , so only the few bad changes have to be fixed and the game will become even more epic .

[Romek]

I realy dislike new bulding unlock idea. It will destroy most of good balance map. If mapmaker dont want to skip inn and dont want to allow players to make fast woodcutters that can mean he did it beacause he had reason to did it.
For example : Map - Golden Cliffs - one of best and most balanced 3v3 map made by koczis12 is not made for fast woodcutter start. Koczis is inteligent player and mapmaker so he exacly knows how many trees he need to put and where. Fast woodcutter on that map totaly destroys wood balance here. Now its just to easy to play it.
Its not Golden Cliffs style!

Im also worry about how fight will look now. Meele units can be a mosters now because of that "hit and move and dont stop" change. So what we get now from that change is boosted meele units and weaked ranged beacause of no hit and run option for them
I can agree that shoot - halt need to be fixed but shoot and move ??? C mon ! Its actually the one micro thing what we can do in that game with range army.

Market is still abusable and some "product" are to easy to get but i dont want to talk now about it because its nothing compared to this 2 things what i writed.

[pawel95]

And now what really should be changed back is the thing with the unlocking of quarrys and woodcutters after the school.
It really ruined one of the best maps in KaM - Golden Cliffs . This map is made for the normal order of school-inn-quarry-woodcutter-sawmill. So i think it should be the decision of the mapmaker which buildings should be unlocked
and which should be not. Im sure this change just had the aim to make the start faster and to generalize the start for all maps so people wont be confused about the different starts in different maps but i think this problems can be
solved different. The starting speed is now solved anyway by the possibility of speeding up the game itself and the different start-buildingorder can maybe be noted in the mapdescription, so people will know what awaits them.
.

I think Pizza is right with this statement. I remember that here on the forum was a tiny discussion to allow the building of forester and quarries just after the school. However this discussion wasn´t really a discussion by many KaM players and for me their weren´t any big arguments to implement this.

Like Pizza said some maps just lost their originality with implementing this.
Each mapmaker should still decide if he wanna allow to build forester that fast or even all buildings at the start.
Btw thats also a big property of KnightsandMerchants, not to be able to build everything from the beginning.
Its still the option that a mapmaker can allow, whatever he/his players/fans want to have.

However in general for all maps/games *this shouldn´t be set like that.

EDIT: * Specially in the SP maps like the campaigns, this is for many players a too big difference in comparing with the original games TSK/TPR.

EDIT: Sorry, when I wrote my text, Romo just said the mainly point

pawel95

[Krom]

Please explain how possibility to build woodcutter for all players 5min earlier in the game breaks the 3vs3 map, and why is that specifically GoldenCliffs but not other maps?

Nerfed archers - I agree, we will try to improve that one.

[The Dark Lord]

Addressing the archer problem: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1282&p=20965&hilit=halt#p20965
I kinda expected the fuss about this.

Oh and as I said some time ago I dislike the building unlocking too.

And obviously market causes trouble again.



(I keep editing this post )
I must admit I haven't even downloaded the RC yet, I'll probably do that soon and then give some more comments (especially about all the nice new improvements, since I already complained about the (imo) bad).

[Lewin]

Yeah ok. The color or the style isnt the problem. It looks awesome for me,too. Also with the Red "X" its really nicely. However like Ben says in the older posts the gap looks at some resolutions "unprofessional to me" and I just thing this is the point
However its like I said not important for this moment.

If we fit it to use the full width in 1024x768 then the guy using 1280x1024 will have a small gap. There will always be a gap for some resolution unless we stretch it to the full width, and I don't see what the problem is with 1024x768 having the gap.

I was told that the setting is in game ticks, which are 10 per second, so 300 would mean in 30 seconds... but ok I'll try

/edit: Wow that worked. Funny. It was lewin who said to me that its ticks, not seconds ^^ Thanks!

Sorry for getting seconds/ticks mixed up, I forgot that in the map editor we changed it to seconds

Btw checking this thing I wanted to ask the remake team, if its possible to add also or to replace the + and - buttons with a normal box, where you can put the number with the keyboard.
Because it will be really hard to click 200 times on the "+" When you want to attack at position: (X;Y) (100;100) ? Would be nice

Well you can use right click to add 10 so reaching 100 only takes 10 clicks. But it's a good point, I've added that to the todo list. AI attack delay would take forever if you wanted to set it to say 2 hours (7200 seconds)

Archers being unresponsive: We've already said we'll fix that.

[Pizzaisgood]

Please explain how possibility to build woodcutter for all players 5min earlier in the game breaks the 3vs3 map, and why is that specifically GoldenCliffs but not other maps?

If you can build your woodcutters directly after you built your school you will get more trees early on. More trees equals more buildings like for example an early ironproduction. So a working ironproduction can be possible under 20 minutes into the game because espeacially on goldencliffs the distances to the resources are really small. And like that you´ll get really big armys after pt which doesn´t suit the maps. And so this problem occurs on a lot of other maps that have the old school-inn-quarry-woodcutter-order and are built for that order. A perfect example was also Across the Desert. It was an often played in earlier releases but then some people decided to make the map easier by giving the possibility to make a quarry and a woodcutter at the start. Like that the map got just too easy and hadn´t the same challenge like the original one , so noone played it anymore from that moment.

[Romek]

I totaly agree with pizza. I cant uderstand why exacly this modification is in game. If someone want make fast woodcutters in his map he can allow players to do that.