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Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 11:49
by Lewin
These 2 points don´t make any sense for me together. Now I/every other player need to get a way to implement a shit script in every mission of the campaigns?
The first point was that when somebody makes a map (single or multiplayer), he gets the choice of choosing what the unlock order will be via the script. That doesn't mean that each person who plays his map goes and edits that script to his liking (like you're suggesting with campaigns).
The second point was that in singleplayer it's not a big deal what the unlock order is. If you don't like the new unlock order, you can choose to ignore it and keep building in the old order (in multiplayer you can't do that because you'll be slower than your opponents).
What doesn't make sense?
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 11:50
by The Dark Lord
No, all single player missions need to be rebalanced...
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:00
by Krom
Trololo TDL
Seriously though, it is either a global change that applies to ALL maps with rare exceptions or does not gets applied at all (with rare exclusion of maps that unlock many houses at start)
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:02
by Lewin
No, all single player missions need to be rebalanced...
They already do, our AI doesn't match TPR/TSK perfectly (and never will) and that has a far bigger impact on singleplayer balance than unlocking buildings slightly faster (which just speeds your village up by a few minutes and makes the game more interesting). Not to mention unit balance changes, that's a massive impact compared to building unlocking.
Besides, do we exclude every feature that means some maps need rebalancing? The Remake would just be an exact TPR clone if we took that approach...
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:05
by Krom
Has anyone tried rebalancing a map with new unlock order, what is the EXACT equivalent amount of wood/stone to be removed to match the difficulty?
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:08
by The Dark Lord
No, all single player missions need to be rebalanced...
They already do, our AI doesn't match TPR/TSK perfectly (and never will) and that has a far bigger impact on singleplayer balance than unlocking buildings slightly faster (which just speeds your village up by a few minutes and makes the game more interesting). Not to mention unit balance changes, that's a massive impact compared to building unlocking.
Besides, do we exclude every feature that means some maps need rebalancing? The Remake would just be an exact TPR clone if we took that approach...
I didn't say it was a huge problem; I just wish the person who's going to do that all the best.
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:25
by pawel95
Ok, so how can i choose the option that i will have the old order in all campaign missions and sp missions back?
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:27
by Lewin
Ok, so how can i choose the option that i will have the old order in all campaign missions and sp missions back?
When you play, build the school, wait until it's finished, then build the inn, wait until it's finished, then build the stonemason, ....etc. Ignore that some houses are unlocked earlier. What difference does unlocking order make? It's your choice which houses you choose to build at any given moment of the game.
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:34
by Krom
We do hell of a lot of rebalancing in KaM Remake sourcecode each month and each week, changing things, improving things, changing things because we have improved something, fixing, removing and readding, fixing again and improving more.. We are used to knowing of that KaM Remake is not a rigid thing. It's an ever evolving beast. We try to keep most of the changes locked inside, hide sharp claws and prevent hairy stuff from growing out, guarding innocent villagers from the Beast. We tame the beast, making it more user-friendly, more responsive and less cut-throat. Some mutations have side-effects and require villagers to upgrade their habits and homes. .. wish I could have more time to complete this metaphor ..
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 12:42
by pawel95
Ok, so how can i choose the option that i will have the old order in all campaign missions and sp missions back?
When you play, build the school, wait until it's finished, then build the inn, wait until it's finished, then build the stonemason, ....etc. Ignore that some houses are unlocked earlier. What difference does unlocking order make? It's your choice which houses you choose to build at any given moment of the game.
Hahaha, very funny. Why not just make lances and rush with them, for ignoring the shield patch, when the patch wouldn´t be good in balancing?
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 13:12
by BloodTree
Has anyone tried rebalancing a map with new unlock order, what is the EXACT equivalent amount of wood/stone to be removed to match the difficulty?
Map with 20 tree`s for each loc will look empty. Sometimes maps need thous trees to look good but there option put less wood in storehouse.
Its hard to find out how much exactly players need wood for making city and don`t run out of it at start.
There is so much different build style witch requires individual amount of wood.
If you really want find out there is only one way make a poll in forum.
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 13:16
by Krom
Has anyone tried rebalancing a map with new unlock order, what is the EXACT equivalent amount of wood/stone to be removed to match the difficulty?
Map with 20 tree`s for each loc will look empty. Sometimes maps need thous trees to look good but there option put less wood in storehouse.
Its hard to find out how much exactly players need wood for making city and don`t run out of it at start.
There is so much different build style witch requires individual amount of wood.
If you really want find out there is only one way make a poll in forum.
We assume each map is already balanced. So how much wood one can save on skipping the Inn and being able to place early woodcutters?
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 15:39
by BloodTree
Has anyone tried rebalancing a map with new unlock order, what is the EXACT equivalent amount of wood/stone to be removed to match the difficulty?
Map with 20 tree`s for each loc will look empty. Sometimes maps need thous trees to look good but there option put less wood in storehouse.
Its hard to find out how much exactly players need wood for making city and don`t run out of it at start.
There is so much different build style witch requires individual amount of wood.
If you really want find out there is only one way make a poll in forum.
We assume each map is already balanced. So how much wood one can save on skipping the Inn and being able to place early woodcutters?
To make inn you need ~2min and 40 sec
In that time wood cuter can place maybe 4-5 tree`s
For map or 60min Pt thous 5 tree`s are nothing in my point of view.
I think its more like if you can build fast wood cuter then you can make faster farms or other things and with wood it`s has nothing to do.
Even that don`t make game play harder it just make it bit faster.
To slow down it need put less stone at storehouse and not cut wood from maps!
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 16:08
by EDMatt
Building of inn, by the time they all finish it all depends on the location of the trees , terrain and other factors may come in. a woodcutter would normally plant around 6 trees at least, and not counting extra trees that he will plant during the what would normally be building of the road to the woodcutter in the previous release, we are talking about 10 trees atleast , my friend.
Re: Scripting demo release candidate
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 16:46
by BloodTree
In 2min and 40 sec he plants 10 trees is he running when he do that?
And what if he have to cut trees before he can plant them or doing it at same time.
Really do the test and then speak this crap.
And speaking of about this in witch maps need less trees and why.