Unit diversity

[Czacki]

hey, I have an idea how to improve unit diversity.

Right need it's all about crossbowmen with some meat shields simply because those have no counter.

So I guess buffing cavalry would be the good idea. Make their speed x3 rather than x2 of regular melee guy and give them charge. That way they can encircle your army and quickly appear at the back of crossbowmen, annihilating them completely. This would mean pike/halberds would be necessary as protection.

However, since I never understood why the shield gives absolutely nothing to the swordsmen compared to halberds, I think it would be nice to buff swords to 3 defense points. After all they have the shield for something! Else it's better to just spam halberds if cavalry gets imprved since both swords and halberds have the same meatshield prowess (2 defense).

[caykroyd]

hey, I have an idea how to improve unit diversity.

Right need it's all about crossbowmen with some meat shields simply because those have no counter.

So I guess buffing cavalry would be the good idea. Make their speed x3 rather than x2 of regular melee guy and give them charge. That way they can encircle your army and quickly appear at the back of crossbowmen, annihilating them completely. This would mean pike/halberds would be necessary as protection.

However, since I never understood why the shield gives absolutely nothing to the swordsmen compared to halberds, I think it would be nice to buff swords to 3 defense points. After all they have the shield for something! Else it's better to just spam halberds if cavalry gets imprved since both swords and halberds have the same meatshield prowess (2 defense).

At last someone who thinks like me...
I still argue that sword fighters should have more defense and cavalry a bit more speed(2.4x?)

[krisdw]

I don't think cavalry needs to be changed, but I do feel like Swordsmen should have a better defense (or perhaps only against ranged attacks). But this topic has already been argued over and over in other threads, does it really need a new one?

The answers are also quite known:
Lewin opposes the idea of changing swordsmen.
Speeding up cavalry significantly isn't a good idea because the sprites will look bad. (Although he said a slight, minor speed increase could be done; not from x2 to x3, but rather from x2 to x2.2 or something)

[Czacki]

You could speed up their animation cycle to make them look less stupid.

2.2 won't change much I fear. It needs to be effective, else nobody will bother. Like nobody really bothers now. This unit is simply too slow for a cavalry to have any real use. I sometimes use them for lulz in single player (cause knights look good) and that's all. +1 hp is nice, severe weakness to halberds isn't.

Shield giving +1 def against ranged attacks could be a less-drastic way of buffing the swordsmen.

[Lewin]

You could speed up their animation cycle to make them look less stupid.

The game ticks every 0.1 seconds (100ms), that is the only time an animation step can change. So it is not possible to change the speed of animations because the animation is a series of discrete frames which can only be updated every 100ms (10 FPS). You can't just speed the animation up to say 15 FPS, that would require the animation to be updated every 66.6ms and just doesn't fit the way the engine functions.
I also can't see a need for changing the speed of units.

[Krom]

As Lewin said - we can't change the animation without pulling so much of everything else. The only "easy" option we have is to increase their speed, so they travel from tile to tile faster.

[Guest]

Well I think some buffs to horse units are important because right now there is little purpose for them. if they were faster, they could be useful as lategame crossbow counter. it would promote tactical fighting: encircling, chokespots... all the good stuff. And halberds would be important to have because they would still counter those guys.

I also think shields could be used for something - I mean right now they are just decoration, they don't add any defense... Getting them to give +1 def against arrows/bolts would reduce the impact ranged units have on the battlefield.

The units should have their strengths and weaknesses - right now it's just mass archers and then mass crossbows, with appropriate meat shields (axes or swordmen). There is little use for cavalry and little use for halberdguys. I think it's a bit weird. At least militia can be used as anti-tower unit, but what's the point of getting lancers or scouts? There is none. Usually it's also better to stick to swordsmen and skip knights altogether (and halberdiers because knights are underused).

Perhaps knights having +1 attack instead of the speed buff (in case you guys think it's a bad idea) would be an interesting way to make them useful?

Getting horses is a pain, it takes long, takes a lot of wheat that can be used elsewhere and the bonus is arguably little for the extreme weakness to lances/halberds. On top of a regular swordsman we get speed bonus (that can be matched by using charge at the right moment) and +1 hit point, which is nice but imho hardly worth the time and added possibility of enountering the hardcounter unit.

[dicsoupcan]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but i disagree with cavalry being useless unless you play on a map like lake wololo. I have experienced a lot of times cavalry can make a succesfull (sneak) attack and turn the tables in a fight. when you march up to the enemy or the enemy marches upon your army they focus mainly on your archers and crossbowmen, so they are less alert in cavalry. cavalry is difficult to use but can be very usefull when commanded the right way( and the right way is obviously not a head on charge offcourse).

that being said, cavalry is very effective but in open area battles but not when you have one small attacking point( again for example lake wololo with only a bridge to attack and defend).

[Guest]

That sounds rather limited. I think you won't disagree that the game is based on archers and crossbowmen later (excluding the trade exploits where you rush crossbowmen and trade iron stuff for food to rush the enemy with a stronger army). Logical as it is, I still think the units should offer more diversity and be a threat on their own, not just "as an add-on to xbows".