Beta 6 is here!

[Michieru]

and the units statistic: I think the new statistics better.only a bit rolled through each other, only for the people is a question mark, which I believe should be the fisher, have you forgotten him or what?

No, if u build fisherman hut, the fisherman will be unlocked, that's what is writing in the readme.

@ the thing with the crossbow, reinstall your KaM, use patch SR2 from KaM.de and then install the beta and one question did you forget to run the SETUP.BAT? And don't use old save-files.

[kuba11100]

6 TPR again:
I've made a mistake in previous post - I meant 4, not 6. Shorlty after that, a drunk soldiers bug appeared (brown enemy wasn't affected). There's also one stone trace and one uncollectable square (the northern mountain).

I can also confirm the bug reported by Michieru - enemy's recruit died, and new one wasn't trained (or that one got lost? one recruit was standing near the inn).

[Litude]

SR2 is no longer needed in the recent betas, all changes are included but running SETUP.BAT is very important!
And I wonder if adding the recruit counts is causing all this mess up with the watchtowers, I guess I should remove them as they seem to not work after all.

- minimap colour of the light green enemy attacking at the start is the same as the dark green one

Noted

- were more crabs added? at the start there was so many of them on the west part of the map that they slowed down my soldiers

No there wasn't but because there's no water nearby I guess I could remove some.

- protecting the iron mine built on the lowest iron mountain can make the enemy take more soldiers (but it's annoying only if you have soldiers placed in a "bad" place)

Which enemy, the southern one? Because the defense radius of the green team is so small I don't want to decrease it anymore.

[Litude]

Added Russian build of beta 6 . Now I just need someone to do the Hungarian translation...

[Lewin]

Yeah but it's not only the corner pieces, rough elevation can also cause it.

That makes it more complicated.

Hmm... Maybe it could be a good idea, I just fear that someone will manage to mess up their game somehow .

Well as long as you make the BAT file well, it shouldn't be an issue. Do a check to make sure both files exist before swapping, and if they don't then do not swap them. I don't really think it could corrupt there game.

Is this truly needed? Thought that you'd realize quite fast that you messed up with defending your allies if you suddenly lose.

Yeah, I suppose. Never mind.

Well 16 is the amount the official messages suggested, so... Besides my fields are usually 14 or 15 squares.

Yeah, if it's the official number then leave it.

In certain languages it looks weird to write any numbers above 10 or 12 with letters, but for the English version probably.

If you look official writing then they normally write numbers as text. Especially once it's in old English. (I will work on that at some point)

II think there's room for it, but I also thought that at some point the player has to learn to find out the correct occupant himself, right?

Suppose so. You said you wanted feedback on the message content, so that's all I'm doing.

Maybe, but I think something should be left to the players to figure out.

Ok.

Oh, I thought adding a MAX_RECRUITS of 5 would make sure they wouldn't produce more than 5 recruits but I guess it is somehow like the SERF_COUNT or something.

Odd... Well there were defiantly more than 5. We need to do some more research into what this command really does.

The problem with sending two messages at once, will the first message be noticed?

Yeah, maybe they wouldn't be. Do you think we could put two smaller groups of bowmen (on different teams) so that the messages would arrive at exactly the same time?
Currently there are 3 lines of bowmen, so make the first two lines one group and the last line another group. That would also make it slightly harder because the back line would keep shooting you.

Well the earlier message is IMO not trying to actually tell you to attack but to take out their bowmen with your scouts.

Yeah. I guess it looks especially odd to me because one message arrived so late.
Looking at it now, if that's the case then you defiantly shouldn't have "Now" on the start of the second message. (now implies it is a new concept) Just "Thou shalt launch an attack..." seems better to me, the "now" makes the other message look odd.
"Attack the enemy forces which lie in waiting to the west" is telling you to attack isn't it? That's why I think it sounds odd, because both messages tell you to attack.

What I hate about battle missions is that altering just something very small like a building position can make the mission very different (the AI will do very different moves)... I don't know if this is really necessary. The storehouse with 100 of each ware looks bad though.

I can see your problem, so modifying mission 10 would be a bad idea. (although fixing the wares can't hurt.
How about this then: Why don't you modify mission 11 to match mission 10? At the moment it looks quite odd the way some buildings and roads change. Changing 11 should make no difference at all.

Well actually there was a weapons workshop over there which can be placed just fine. Though chances are this weapons workshop was placed there because of that tree and mission 10 has a sawmill there so I guess I could remove the tree and change it to a sawmill?

Yeah, I think so.

Building Sawmill over tree

This has defiantly always happened in TPR, and I can't remember about TSK. It does seem a bit odd, because the tree is quite big.
It could be changed, all info about trees in in mapelem.dat, and I believe Harold and JBSnorro know how to decode it. (Harold told me he did)
Still, this could have bad effects on other missions, because you can't build stuff at certain locations. (and the woodcutter will never remove that tree)

About the 5 TSK message: the first message say: "You have to protect allied Lauenburg's troops at all costs", so I don't think that additional lost condition message should be added.

Yeah, ok forget it. I just think the goal messages are cool! (looks great in tutorial when you defeat the enemy)
I do remember playing mission 5 in TSK once, and I hadn't checked on Lauenboug for a while. (I was building my village) When I next looked up his lance carriers were gone. (presumably killed by purple)

And I wonder if adding the recruit counts is causing all this mess up with the watchtowers, I guess I should remove them as they seem to not work after all.

Maybe, but it would be good to make max recruits work, because otherwise the AI builds millions. No offence, but are you spelling the command correctly? For some reason the recruit is missing the i, it is written RECRUT, not RECRUIT.

Keep up the good work!
Lewin.

[Lewin]

Sorry for double post, but it is 6 hours later.
I have tested TSK 1-3.

TSK Mission 1
Good. I've never played this mission in TPR, so I'm comparing it to the TSK version.

- In the TSK version, the mill and the sawmill always survived. This could probably be fixed by giving them less house damage. You don't need to change it if you don't want to, it really depends of whether you want the TSK campaign to be just like it was in TSK.

- I ran out of sausages!! It was quite near the start and I couldn't make any more!! It IS the first mission and so I suggest you puts lots more sausages, because with only bread and wine the inn gets empty quickly.

- I see you've modified the top stone hill a little bit, so you can't shoot buildings over it. That's good, but it looks a bit... Artificial. I suggest you use more than one type of stone on the new bit, (randomize the tiles) and elevate it a bit more.

- In TSK, I always remember when I reach the yellow base there is a group of bowmen hiding in the forest to the north that takes me by surprise. That is really great, because by that point the player assumes ever one is dead. However, I couldn't find them today. I think they were called up to reinforce a front line position, however I believe they should be a front line position with a very low defence radius so that they stay in their hiding place.



TSK Mission 2
Very good. The attacks are much better now.

- The first message might be sent a bit too early (about 3-5 minutes before the attack) but it doesn't really matter.

- The new attacks are good, but when I try to kill their bowmen at the back, they "take more". This isn't really an issue but it means they have no one defending their base when I attack it. (maybe lower the defence radius on only some squads)

- Interesting point: When I destroyed the barracks there were EXACTLY 5 recruits in it! I doubt that is coincidental, I think it's proof that max recruits does actually work. (unless of course the value is not 5...)



TSK Mission 3
Good. I survived with only 2 axe fighters and only lost 3 bowmen. The mission is very well balanced.



TSK Mission 4
Part way through, but I've already got some comments:
- In the briefing, the "with" on the 4th line is cut in half. You need to rearrange the new lines. (the sentence is "...retreated with all his soldiers")

- The sawmill is not released even though I have one. (looks bad)

- Maybe you should start with a few more serfs, because with 4 types of food it takes AGES to fill up the inn and deliver the corn before they will deliver stone to my labourers. (I had to wait for a few minutes before they had finished) This is a minor thing, but I think it is made worse by adding fish.


Still playing mission 4, will let you know how it goes.
If you don't want to change any of these things then that's fine, just let me know.
Lewin.

[kuba11100]

- In the TSK version, the mill and the sawmill always survived. This could probably be fixed by giving them less house damage. You don't need to change it if you don't want to, it really depends of whether you want the TSK campaign to be just like it was in TSK.

If you let those two groups of militia go to the coded place, that buildings will survive.

[Litude]

If you look official writing then they normally write numbers as text. Especially once it's in old English. (I will work on that at some point)

Let's leave it for the old English revision, I'm so bored of messing with the formatting of messages...

Suppose so. You said you wanted feedback on the message content, so that's all I'm doing.

Okay.

Odd... Well there were defiantly more than 5. We need to do some more research into what this command really does.

There had to be somekind of limit because the AI wasn't training new recruits for his watchtowers.

Yeah, maybe they wouldn't be. Do you think we could put two smaller groups of bowmen (on different teams) so that the messages would arrive at exactly the same time?
Currently there are 3 lines of bowmen, so make the first two lines one group and the last line another group. That would also make it slightly harder because the back line would keep shooting you.

I was thinking something like making the last message appear when you have killed the back line of bowmen of the main army as the last message told you to kill the bowmen. But perhaps I should just revert it back to how it was, if only there was some kind of developed trigger system in the game...

Yeah. I guess it looks especially odd to me because one message arrived so late.
Looking at it now, if that's the case then you defiantly shouldn't have "Now" on the start of the second message. (now implies it is a new concept) Just "Thou shalt launch an attack..." seems better to me, the "now" makes the other message look odd.
"Attack the enemy forces which lie in waiting to the west" is telling you to attack isn't it? That's why I think it sounds odd, because both messages tell you to attack.

The third message should be changed to make it more clear that you need to take the scouts to attack the bowmen. Currently it uses some weird wording.

I can see your problem, so modifying mission 10 would be a bad idea. (although fixing the wares can't hurt.
How about this then: Why don't you modify mission 11 to match mission 10? At the moment it looks quite odd the way some buildings and roads change. Changing 11 should make no difference at all.

Hmm... I'm not really sure about this one.

Yeah, I think so.

That one I'll do.

This has defiantly always happened in TPR, and I can't remember about TSK. It does seem a bit odd, because the tree is quite big.
It could be changed, all info about trees in in mapelem.dat, and I believe Harold and JBSnorro know how to decode it. (Harold told me he did)
Still, this could have bad effects on other missions, because you can't build stuff at certain locations. (and the woodcutter will never remove that tree)

Perhaps it's easier to remove dead rotten trees than green ones? Dunno but I think this could cause problems with current missions.

Maybe, but it would be good to make max recruits work, because otherwise the AI builds millions. No offence, but are you spelling the command correctly? For some reason the recruit is missing the i, it is written RECRUT, not RECRUIT.

Yeah or at least your editor detects the limits.

TSK Mission 1
Good. I've never played this mission in TPR, so I'm comparing it to the TSK version.

- In the TSK version, the mill and the sawmill always survived. This could probably be fixed by giving them less house damage. You don't need to change it if you don't want to, it really depends of whether you want the TSK campaign to be just like it was in TSK.

They survive for me? :shock:

- I ran out of sausages!! It was quite near the start and I couldn't make any more!! It IS the first mission and so I suggest you puts lots more sausages, because with only bread and wine the inn gets empty quickly.

There has never been any sausages in the mission.

- I see you've modified the top stone hill a little bit, so you can't shoot buildings over it. That's good, but it looks a bit... Artificial. I suggest you use more than one type of stone on the new bit, (randomize the tiles) and elevate it a bit more.

D'oh, I put the wrong map file into the beta patch, just something I was messing around with. I ended up increasing the defense radius of the enemy soldiers to fix it.

- In TSK, I always remember when I reach the yellow base there is a group of bowmen hiding in the forest to the north that takes me by surprise. That is really great, because by that point the player assumes ever one is dead. However, I couldn't find them today. I think they were called up to reinforce a front line position, however I believe they should be a front line position with a very low defence radius so that they stay in their hiding place.

Well the script is exactly as it was in TSK though...

TSK Mission 2
- The new attacks are good, but when I try to kill their bowmen at the back, they "take more". This isn't really an issue but it means they have no one defending their base when I attack it. (maybe lower the defence radius on only some squads)

Yeah it's a bit troublesome when the bowmen like to stay behind...

- Interesting point: When I destroyed the barracks there were EXACTLY 5 recruits in it! I doubt that is coincidental, I think it's proof that max recruits does actually work. (unless of course the value is not 5...)

The value was 5, but I have a feeling that watchtowers and recruit counts do not work well together.

TSK Mission 4
Part way through, but I've already got some comments:
- In the briefing, the "with" on the 4th line is cut in half. You need to rearrange the new lines. (the sentence is "...retreated with all his soldiers")

Yeah I remember tinkering around with that but the new formatting ended up looking weird. I'll try again.

- The sawmill is not released even though I have one. (looks bad)

Okay, think this might be a problem in other missions as well.

- Maybe you should start with a few more serfs, because with 4 types of food it takes AGES to fill up the inn and deliver the corn before they will deliver stone to my labourers. (I had to wait for a few minutes before they had finished) This is a minor thing, but I think it is made worse by adding fish.

Hmm... Mission 1 TPR could use this treatment.

[The Knight]

- The AI will now take all wares to their storehouse

Is this reason, why AI in mission 11 TSk don't tak stones from stone man's house?

- In-game messages have been reorganized

mh, what?


The new statistics menu.... great!

Some Questions:
The hit points word (in german: ZUSTAND) over the little green status-bar of every building is in an unreadable color, could you change it into white?

Could you also use F12 for pausing game?

Could you make the screen dark if game is paused, like in TSK game?

Could you deactivate the NET-GAMES Button? Net Games lobby is death since years, so new players don't know what is wrong with the lobby.

Get hungry soldiers fishes to eat?

[kamfan]

- The AI will now take all wares to their storehouse

does that mean all wares? i cant remember but the enemy still take no stones to the warehouse. i don't remember if there are other wares that wasnt take to the warehouse. i usually give an enemy some gold and it looks like he isnt motivated to take the gold ressources nor the cole to the goldmelthouse

and well, whats with that fight totourial? is there a possible way to play it in the german version of the game? i really like to play. until now no one could give me a map or a script ever.. is that inincluded in Beta 6? i havent tested yet. perhaps it dosen't, because you have no button in the main menu for it, otherwise you have no choise in overwriting the build totourial. Im interested in getting this fight level some day.

i asked me if its a problem at all, building houses on little objects around, cause there are many objects used in tsk. but as i said i didnt tested yet. it sounds good, i will play through tsk again, i think with beta 6.

[Lewin]

If you let those two groups of militia go to the coded place, that buildings will survive.

Oops, sorry, my mistake.

Let's leave it for the old English revision, I'm so bored of messing with the formatting of messages...

Ok.

I was thinking something like making the last message appear when you have killed the back line of bowmen of the main army as the last message told you to kill the bowmen. But perhaps I should just revert it back to how it was, if only there was some kind of developed trigger system in the game...

Nah, I don't think that's a good idea because they will send their other soldiers if you attack their bowmen. (Or won't they?) If they don't then yes, it's a good idea. (but you might need to change the content of the messages a bit to fit with that) Maybe if you move the bowmen back a bit it will work?
I still don't see the problem with two groups of bowmen, although the two messages might still go unnoticed I suppose.
What ever you do, I don't think you should revert it. It is much better now with messages appearing at the right time.

The third message should be changed to make it more clear that you need to take the scouts to attack the bowmen. Currently it uses some weird wording.

Yes, it does.

Hmm... I'm not really sure about this one.

Well I can't see what harm it will do, and I think it's quite noticeable that the buildings/roads change a lot. It's your call though.

Perhaps it's easier to remove dead rotten trees than green ones? Dunno but I think this could cause problems with current missions.

Yeah, although it doesn't look that rotten. I'd leave it as is, because changing it could have some nasty consequences.

They survive for me? :shock:

As kuba pointed out, that was my mistake entirely. :oops: Sorry.

There has never been any sausages in the mission.

Ok then, leave it.

D'oh, I put the wrong map file into the beta patch, just something I was messing around with. I ended up increasing the defense radius of the enemy soldiers to fix it.

Heh, good, I thought it looked a bit unfinished.

Well the script is exactly as it was in TSK though...

Oh well, maybe I attacked them differently.

Yeah it's a bit troublesome when the bowmen like to stay behind...

Well at least they actually shoot you. (I remember in some missions bowmen just walked straight into my troops)

The value was 5, but I have a feeling that watchtowers and recruit counts do not work well together.

Yeah, so how about only using recruit count in missions without watchtowers. Lots of recruits isn't so bad, it gives your men something to do. :twisted:

Okay, think this might be a problem in other missions as well.

It's only a problem in mission 4 because you have a sawmill but you don't have a woodcutters hut. (in fact, what use is a sawmill without one? Seems kind of weird to me...)

- The AI will now take all wares to their storehouse
Is this reason, why AI in mission 11 TSk don't tak stones from stone man's house?

Yes it is, but now it's been fixed! (mission 11 works fine now!)

- In-game messages have been reorganized
mh, what?

This is just an internal thing. Litude has moved the messages in text.lib into the same order as they are displayed in the game. This should have no effect to game play, only to people who want to edit the LIB files.

Could you also use F12 for pausing game?

I have been trying to fix this, but EXE hacking is much harder than it sounds. Assembly is difficult to read, and so far I haven't even found the code that specified which key to use. I am using an old version EXE (1.52 I think) in which screenshot does work to locate the code.

Could you make the screen dark if game is paused, like in TSK game?

I doubt it. That would require some serious hacking, and it was possibly removed for XP compatibility reasons.

Could you deactivate the NET-GAMES Button? Net Games lobby is death since years, so new players don't know what is wrong with the lobby.

Maybe I could remove it all together, but for the amount of effort it would take I don't think it's worth it.
Lots of old games have shut down online play, (AOE for one) I think that new players will cope.

Get hungry soldiers fishes to eat?

Once again, we have been looking at that but so far no luck.

does that mean all wares? i cant remember but the enemy still take no stones to the warehouse. i don't remember if there are other wares that wasnt take to the warehouse. i usually give an enemy some gold and it looks like he isnt motivated to take the gold ressources nor the cole to the goldmelthouse

Yes, all wares will be delivered. The stone bug has been fixed in beta 6. As for not taking coal to the metallurgist, well that could be because of the default distribution of wares. Sometimes that can result in wares being delivered quite slowly.

and well, whats with that fight totourial? is there a possible way to play it in the german version of the game? i really like to play. until now no one could give me a map or a script ever.. is that inincluded in Beta 6? i havent tested yet. perhaps it dosen't, because you have no button in the main menu for it, otherwise you have no choise in overwriting the build totourial. Im interested in getting this fight level some day.

Currently the only way to play the battle tutorial is to swap it with the normal tutorial:
1. Rename mission0.dat to mission0-old.dat (in data\mission)
2. Rename mission99.dat to mission0.dat
3. Play the tutorial

To revert:
1. Rename mission0.dat to mission99.dat
2. Rename mission0-old.dat to mission0.dat

That's why I'm suggesting Litude includes a BAT file to do this automatically.

I might have a look to see if I can add an extra button to the main menu, but I don't think I will be able to.

I have found some more problems in mission 4:
- After 1 hour I had my entire village finished and I was making troops very fast. (I have 2 weapons workshops and 2 armour workshops)
- After 1:32 the enemy still hadn't attacked. That's a bad thing, I think they should attack much earlier. (after 30 mins maybe, and then every half hour or something) So I lured them.
- When I lured them they took everything, so I lost my army. (not a problem, in fact it's good)

- The grass above and to the left of the waterfall is not blocked, meaning that I can tell me troops to walk there but they won't. You should add blocks to it.
- One stone trace (so far) in northern mountain: Screenshot.
- No recruits in the barracks here, because they were all trained.

I have broken through the first line of defence, will let you know when I reach the final base.
My brothers having fun on mission 11, the attacks are working really well. (it's a tough mission)

Whew, big post.
Lewin.

[Litude]

- The AI will now take all wares to their storehouse

Is this reason, why AI in mission 11 TSk don't tak stones from stone man's house?

Yes, it has now been fixed.

- In-game messages have been reorganized

mh, what?

Nothing significant, makes it easier to handle the translations.

The new statistics menu.... great!

Thanks! It is easy to reorganize it so if you have any suggestions for the layout feel free to post it here.

Some Questions:
The hit points word (in german: ZUSTAND) over the little green status-bar of every building is in an unreadable color, could you change it into white?

I tried looking for the color but didn't manage to find it.

Could you also use F12 for pausing game?

Perhaps it could be possible if people want this to be changed.

Could you make the screen dark if game is paused, like in TSK game?

Sounds quite difficult to do.

Could you deactivate the NET-GAMES Button? Net Games lobby is death since years, so new players don't know what is wrong with the lobby.

Think Lewin might be able to do this.

Get hungry soldiers fishes to eat?

This is constantly being attempted but no luck just yet

- The AI will now take all wares to their storehouse

does that mean all wares? i cant remember but the enemy still take no stones to the warehouse. i don't remember if there are other wares that wasnt take to the warehouse. i usually give an enemy some gold and it looks like he isnt motivated to take the gold ressources nor the cole to the goldmelthouse

Can't exactly remember what wares the AI didn't previously take, at least stone, tree trunks, corn and coal. The AI will now take all of these into his storehouse. And stone is taken to the storehouse, DO NOT LOAD OLD SAVED GAMES!

and well, whats with that fight totourial? is there a possible way to play it in the german version of the game? i really like to play. until now no one could give me a map or a script ever.. is that inincluded in Beta 6? i havent tested yet. perhaps it dosen't, because you have no button in the main menu for it, otherwise you have no choise in overwriting the build totourial. Im interested in getting this fight level some day.

Adding a button to the menu would be difficult, but the next beta will have a file in the TPR directory which will automatically replace the build tutorial with the town tutorial and vica versa.

i asked me if its a problem at all, building houses on little objects around, cause there are many objects used in tsk. but as i said i didnt tested yet. it sounds good, i will play through tsk again, i think with beta 6.

Sorry, I don't quite understand?

[kamfan]

i asked me if its a problem at all, building houses on little objects around, cause there are many objects used in tsk. but as i said i didnt tested yet. it sounds good, i will play through tsk again, i think with beta 6.

Sorry, I don't quite understand?[/quote]

i will ask it this way: are trees the only thing you cant build on? i like that, but i didnt like if the human player cant build on tree stumps and things like that, because in tsk, take a look at the maps, there are many of these items used, especially in your town. hope you undestand it

otherwise good work, tsk is my all time favorite

[Litude]

You can't build on trees and bushes. Some flowers don't allow building anything on top of them either.
Oh and I do not plan on disallowing placement of buildings over dead trees and alike.

[Litude]

Nah, I don't think that's a good idea because they will send their other soldiers if you attack their bowmen. (Or won't they?) If they don't then yes, it's a good idea. (but you might need to change the content of the messages a bit to fit with that) Maybe if you move the bowmen back a bit it will work?

They won't send any assistance because they belong to a different team .

What ever you do, I don't think you should revert it. It is much better now with messages appearing at the right time.

Yeah so do I, the only problem I foresee is if someone feels corageuous enough to attack the bowmen at the start without being tasked to do so, but oh well .

Well I can't see what harm it will do, and I think it's quite noticeable that the buildings/roads change a lot. It's your call though.

It's just that everyone has become so used to the way the stuff is set-up, changing something like this...

Well the script is exactly as it was in TSK though...

Oh well, maybe I attacked them differently.

Now that I think about it, this was more than likely caused because I increased some defense radius values, will return the bowmen defense radius to its previous value.

Yeah, so how about only using recruit count in missions without watchtowers. Lots of recruits isn't so bad, it gives your men something to do. :twisted:

Yeah or maybe they should just be left as they were before adding them.

I might have a look to see if I can add an extra button to the main menu, but I don't think I will be able to.

That would be great!

- After 1:32 the enemy still hadn't attacked. That's a bad thing, I think they should attack much earlier. (after 30 mins maybe, and then every half hour or something) So I lured them.

Hmm... I wonder if the drunk soldiers bug appeared, it did appear seldom for me when testing.

- The grass above and to the left of the waterfall is not blocked, meaning that I can tell me troops to walk there but they won't. You should add blocks to it.

Problem is, I don't know how I would go about doing this with Qage's editor...

- One stone trace (so far) in northern mountain: Screenshot.

Okay.