Knights and Merchants.net Forum

Hello. Seeing how people are enjoying making mayhem in my previous maps-related topic, I decided to finally make another one, about the idea I had some time ago. I got mainly positive feedback from other people (including Lewin) about the idea, and I think this might be a fair solution to the map deletion problem, and would make the discussion about map deletion obsolete. I didn't want to start it yet because I knew what it would mean for the moderators, but seeing as the mayhem is going on anyway, I can only wish them good luck in their job here

Problem:
-too many maps in the Remake right now
-lots of them don't have the necessary quality. This might be fine for the most popular maps (since it seems people like the gameplay of some of the uglier maps, for example my Frozen Waters map), but if a map is both looking bad AND unpopular, then I see no reason to include it and clutter the maps list
-the new feature, introduced in the next Remake version, which is "file downloads", is going to complicate this problem MUCH MORE. People with no skill at all will modify the existing maps then force other people to play their versions of Cursed Ravine, Golden Cliffs etc. They will create new really bad maps then send them to everyone, only to make "everyone" laugh at the looks of the map. This way, the MapsMP folder will be clutterred very much with unusable/unnecessary maps

Solution: the idea is to introduce, in the next Remake version, two maps lists - one with official maps, and the other with downloaded maps. There would be way less official maps than MapsMP has right now. How would it work?

When someone installs the Remake for the first time (full install, no update):
He has around 100 maps, carefully selected from the current map pool, only the best ones. The new official maps list would include both best looking maps that are not too campy and they are of TeamSpeak level of difficulty (think Back in the Desert, Rich Land, TFF, Across, Golden...) and maps that are very popular, even if some people disagree about them looking nice, or even if they are campy (I will not give other examples than my own map - Frozen Waters, to not make other people sad. However, let me state that while I dislike maps of PAKER, I agree maps like TSR and CC should be included for their popularity)

When someone installs the update - so, he has Remake 5503 and installs the new upcoming version as an update:
The MapsMP folder gets renamed to DownloadedMapsMP or something like that. Maps that are duplicated in both OfficialMapsMP and DownloadedMapsMP get deleted in the latter folder. So for example, DownloadedMapsMP/Cursed Ravine will be deleted, because this map is already in OfficialMapsMP. All the maps that didn't get included, and all the privately downloaded maps that the user downloaded before, will be kept in DownloadedMapsMP. Even the maps that got deleted from the Remake are here.

Now what happens to all the maps that we decided to not include in the Remake anymore?
Since people who had 5503 installed, and downloaded an update for it, still have the deleted maps (in DownloadedMapsMP), it is possible to send the map over to other players. If the map is popular enough, we will easily see it in the popular maps list, and we can consider re-adding it again.

What with people that try to duplicate the maps, for example, making their own versions of Cursed Ravine without even changing the name?
We will not allow to make a map with a name of an official map, and we will not allow replacing of the official maps.

Problems to discuss about
-original maps - some of them are simply not good enough and unpopular, and while personally I don't think we should keep them just for the sake of them being original, I know some people will differ in their opinions. I advise to either leave them to avoid too much hassle and heated discussions; we could also leave a link to download them on the official Remake site instead, which is a solution I'd like more.

I find this idea really good

It is a good idea!

great idea

Sado should be the Minister of Maps now

This idea gets my Dark Mark of Approval:





But of course, since the background is black, you can't see it.

Me as a green Horseman, you also get my 100% Sado:

good idea, so there will be asplit between stock and custom maps.

America is on your side too, sado: Uncle Sam approved:

Czech guy likes this idea!

This thread had so much potential..

Darth Vader on your (of course dark) side

indeed

I'm not angry, I am a troll after all But when you're done with it, I'd like to see some arguments against the idea... unless there are none

This is interesting idea but it not necessary "fixes" all the problems: first of all you still need to somehow select those official maps and while you wrote "all the best ones" in the very next sentence you mentioned "popular maps" as well.. so I guess it's going to turn into yet another flame war about which map to include.
Maybe it would be better to really include just the best maps, possibly fixing any popular maps to make them less campy (although I doubt there is enough time and people willing to do it).
Maybe drop bad/unpopular maps anyway (make official list, move popular ones, drop the rest) not just move them around, there is "kam repo" after all.

There is also another problem with this solution - completely "locking" official maps is a bit counterproductive if you want to introduce file transfers because this feature was introduced to make it easier to spread new maps among other things, this also includes any new version of existing map made by the original author of the map. What if he/she wants to try out new version ? Back to "old" method ? Renaming it ? Sure it works but testing is limited to people willing to help and if the new version is simply better most people would be out of luck.
If you really want this implement this should just an option in my option (by default turned on) or instead of that, an annoying, fat warning when you're going to enter lobby/download remake of "official" map.

As a side note, since this would mean that people installing the game for the first time won't have immediate "access" to all the maps - I didn't tested the file transfer yet but I assume it's just "download" button, if it's not then disregard this part completely - people new to the game might be unwillingly installing a lot of (possibly popular) junk, perhaps adding some metadata like screen shoots, etc. available before download would help mitigate the "clutter" ? Or perhaps maps should not be written to disk unless you actually start game on the map ?