Knights and Merchants.net Forum

Hi Everybody,

I am not the most active forummember, but I try to be active. The last time was when I participated in the tournament.
Today I am here to talk about something else: My (first) new map.

First a little backstory about this map. I played around with this map setup a long time ago, even before KaM Remake, but as a single player map. Lost my file and with that my interest. I started with the same map setup a year ago, but again my computer crashed, which lead to demotivation to start all over again. But in the vacation I worked on the map for the last time. The posting of this map on the forum has therefore multiple reasons. Mainly to get early feedback from you guys. It is my first map and I appreciate feedback. Also as back-up if my computer breaks down again.
Also I hope to use feedback to motivate myself to finish the map even when the part I need to edit is not that much fun.
I will add new versions with change logs which hopefully will improve my change management.

The current version of the map: Centre of the Universe Download: Starting resources:
- 4 Serfs and 4 builders
- 50 Stones
- 50 Wood
- 50 Gold
- 50 Wine
- 35 Bread
- 15 Sausage
- 30 Fish

I wanted to make map, which was different than the current maps. Otherwise it was useless to create another map for KaM remake. The main purpose for the map is for a 2v2v2v2 set up, where every player can attack the other 3 teams, but can be used for a match by 4v4 (1234 vs 5678). Which means North and the Middle versus the East and West.
All the teams have the same amount of entrances (even the middle). The hard part is to balance the map correctly, because of a uneven map. Every space need to have pro's and con's.

Need to improvement:
- Mountains are elevated quickly, need to be perfected,
- Elevation of the map,
- Balancing the places, some have more coal, iron and gold,
- Add forest on some spots + balancing wood,
- Add detail (stones, mushrooms, etc.),
- Determine start resources and builders/serfs,
- Flow of water,
- Remove ugly tiles,
- Create map story,
- Coal terrain,
- Improve boring area's and use critic from forum.
- Add dynamic script for rewarding defeating enemies. (but can be improved)

To complete this map also testing need to be done. There is no match played on this map.
Feedback is really appreciated!

Change log:
Version 0.1: 02-01-2014
- Initial version
Version 0.2: 04-01-2014
- Widing bridges.
- Improvement terrain left bottom.
- Improvement mountains (need to be completed).
- Finished location 4,7,8
- Added small objects on random places, still not complete.
- Determined wares and serfs/builders.
Version 0.3: 04-02-2014
- Added details.
- worked on location 1,2,4 and 5.
- Added small objects on random places, still not complete.
Version 0.4: 15-02-2014
- Rearrange Resources closer to some locations.
- Added detail on some location.
- Tested start message.
- Changed Bridge between 4 and 7.
- Balanced fish
Version 0.5: 23-02-2014
- Mostly worked on the outer ring of the level
- Right-top location has less space thanks to an added lake
- Changed iron bottom left and middle left position
- Elevation all over the map
- Elevation of mountains
- Placement objects
- Improved coal fields
Version 0.6: 25-02-2014
-Finished elevation and object placement;
-Improved bridges;
-Changed location left middle with more space.
- Added detail to the water
Version 0.7: 05-04-2014
-Tree balacing;
-Improved bridges;
-Improved stone mountains
-Balacing of stone and iron
-Small and random improvements
Version 0.8: 20-04-2014
-Give location 3 and 6 more room;
- Relocation bridge between 3 and 1
- Coal improvement
- Working script for the basic needs
- Change Iron loc. 3 and 4
- Minor improvements
Version 0.9: 28-04-2014
-Finished the script
-Translated the messages to Dutch and English
-Updated description of map
(Questions for) Version 1.0: 12-08-2014
-Resources to close?
-Too much space, so not so challenging?
- AI in the middle which will build (what I can plan in the new editor), just a few buildings or nothing
- 8p to 6p, nice or wrong?
-Too choatic for a team set-up?
Greetings,

[DMU] Zaamoot

Hey!

I read the story of the map:) After that You should to finish this map;)

Yes, those improvments are needed.

Hm. 2v2v2v2. This is a fun game mode like FFA or no pt gameing. And i dont think this game mode is the most fairable in the multiplay. mainly if two teams are working together vs one.
//At first i beilive this is a 6P map and after i noticed stores on the centre island as you wrote this is 2v2v2v2.
I dont know how could you balance this, but im sure the defence line is really important for the balancing. i could advice minimum one really opened entrance for all teams, just because camping.

Nice idea, i see what would you like to make.
I wish you lot of patience and happy new year!

Hi Thunder,

Thanks for you fast feedback and you're right. I hate maps, where everyone is just staying in their camp (Volcano Valley).
I have widening the entrances. But not too much, because of the idea of the map will disappear (the circle of water).
Also the entrances are far from some camps, so building to it will be a lot of work.
Version 0.2 will be presented pretty soon. I expect sunday to upload the new version with a lot of minor changes which give the map more body.

Thanks Thunder, I used your maps as inspiration!

Version 0.3 is uploaded (with a minor flaw in the top). Have worked on it after I was finished with my exams and thought is was time for an update.
However I also have some questions to the forum members:

Question to the community:
- Would the map improve in play style if the towers were disabled?
- The type of tree is based on the underground. Does the limited types of trees make the map boring?
- Do the positions on the bottom have too much space?

That questions can be best answered, when you test the map with other players.

When it will be too campy:

1.) Yes, then there is one option, to disable towers for example
2.) Yes, Only a few types of objects or trees at one spot, bring a boring feeling, because it doesn´t look "real"
3.) Not sure, looks like top right loc has also huge amount of space

1. Alright, I am getting close to the testing phase (The texture does not have to be perfect) and I will take this into account.
2. Do you mean purely the trees or also the objects. The objects are not presented well on the picture and need to be add a lot in the map.
Version 0.4 will have all the objects added into it!
3. Ok, So also needed to be tested or changed according to feedback of other forum members.

Disabling towers is almost never a good option in my opinion. If players can't build towers, they'll never feel safe, and thus will feel obligated to leave armies back to defend their bases.

Also, if you are making a 2v2v2v2 setup, there needs to be an actual reward for defeating a player, otherwise players will camp; letting others do all the work (this will ultimately result in a stalemate or campers' victory). Perhaps some dynamic scripts that provide food and weapons from destroying enemy buildings?

Finally, I think that some resources are too far away from the starting location. Difficulty is good, but KaM games are too long already, and building unnecessarily long roads to reach resources does nothing but contribute to the game's inherit game-length problem.

I would change this things:
- waterdirection. make it yourself, not with the button, that makes it more real (of course it´s more work)
- elevation. maybe a bit more in the landscape to let it look more realistic
- 1 tile is wrong. go to the middle of the map. then only right. the ironmountain (without iron) has a wrong tile (on the left side of the mountain).
this is what i can see directly.
GR
MaxDeus

It is way too early to be making such criticism in my opinion
For example, placing tiles by hand should be reserved for final touches, as it makes it difficult to use the terrain brush in the area and they may be removed/reworked with the terrain brush later on anyway (e.g., removing a unneeded river).

So i played it a little bit and found some things to change:
1. you allways used the same tiles, that means: no randomised tiles, everytime the same tile. in some cases this looks very dull und unreal (not only the landscape, even the mountains..).
2. some parts of the resourses looks very "human-made". They are made like: i can place 3 coal mines there and every part of the coal is earned (especially in the middle).
3. sone res. cannot be used (especially in the middle the gold mountain --> 80 goldore cannot be taken).
4. mistakes from laster post.
GR
MaxDeus

Hi Ben and MaxDeus,

First of all, thank you both for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

@MaxDeus: You first post is indeed a little too specific on the moment. The flow of water need to be changed, but is done in the final stage (it was also on my todo list in the first post).
And I know multiple tiles are wrong, but need to have the big picture correct before checking intensively for wrong tiles.
However, I can really use the points in the second post. The usage of resources is now possible in the middle and mountains and coal field will be edited with your feedback when I have the time! Also the randomized tiles will be done, but with a big map this will take a while.

@Ben: The scripting idea is a good idea, but will added if the map is completed. Never done Dynamic scripting before, so it requires some training (however I have a little programming background and I see a lot of support of the devs and community).
Also resource were too far according to Abu Bakker and when two people mention this problem, it need to be addressed. Therefore resources are switched in the map, but once again need to be balanced. I will post the setup probably next week, but again it will be work in progress .

Thanks and more feedback is always welcome!

Hi everyone,

Update:
Updated a new version and getting close to the finalizing the map (without dynamic scripting). Need to improve the right side and middle with detail, but big lines are ready.
Feedback is always appreciated!

Greeting,

Zaamoot

Hey, when i put it in my MapsMP folder i cant find it in game. I checked if its in right folder and it is. Anyone have the same problem?

Had the same problem, so probably did something wrong . Changed the file so it should work now.

Hi all,

Update:
I posted the prefinal version, will work on the scripting for now. The map is done in my opinion, but can change after a test game. Minor changes will also be executed of course. There will be probably be some wrong tiles!
What do you guys think? Do you see any problems?