Horse

[Mixons]

@up: I mean tactic without leather, only horses. Because I think mix horses with leather, can be very risky, like you will have small leather, small amount of horses, starvation and not much iron army(without market). But its my opinion, maybe its possible to have everything good, when you go for horses and leather.

[Jeronimo]

The real impact of this change is having a mix at barracks of not just "shield and range" units, but also anti-cavalry squad and probably your own few horses.

Going full cavalry with 1 Stable is obviously a risk you take, because if enemy has many anti-cavalry you won't do much.
I don't think everyone will mass knights, if you take the 40 corn example, it's +3 horses only... then 2 Stables it's just a fantasy because this results in lack of food or leather units... militia+knights? Only good if opponent totally lacks of lances (incomplete army).

Everyone then agrees that Scouts aren't a threat in their current numbers.
Respect 12-18 knigths... you have them by sacrificing leather army... if your opponent is prepared (lance or pike), he will have control over you... more than you over him.

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Is not realistic to opin as an extremist.
The horse doesn't give you 1 extra unit... it only makes 1 good unit already a bit stronger.
That's what I see as a disadvantage over having 2 leather (possibly lancers or archers), and 3 sausages.

In the proposed scheme we have corn diversity:
1 corn -> 1 flour
3 corn -> 1 horse
4 corn -> 1 skin/1 pig

If original game would have been like this, and someone now would have suggested "increasing horse cost from 3 to 4 corn", I know everyone would have rejected the horse increase.

That's the sad story of parallelism.
In this plane, used to 4x1, you believe 3x1 is inacceptable.
In the other plane, used to 3x1, you consider 4x1 as ridiculous.

Guys come on, let's think for 1 moment in our lives... beyond the barriers of parallelistic experiences.

Best wishes

[dicsoupcan]

i still do think that the cost is justified for it's uses, horses were never meant to be massed and people who do make them must use them wisely. Just like revolution says if mounted units are made cheaper then the unmounted shielded units become more useless. pikemen and lansers will get more use, but only as defensive measures since they have no way of chasing mounted units. 1 knight can already have a great impact on reducing losses for your army, since they can absorb an insane amount of arrows when they keep moving. all those arrows will be wasted on the knight instead of killing your unmounted troops. 1 knight can also harras enemy ranged units, forcing them to move and not fire on the enemy wich also reduce losses by a lot. Lastly if the enemy melee units are defeated a knight can easily chase and kill a lot of range units since there is no way they are abloe to shoot him down bfore he reaches them. therefore the costs are justified for it's flexibility and strenght. Scout are also not useless, but the cost is not as justified for it's flexibility since they die easier to ranged fire making the knight tactics less powerfull.

It is like saying that the mammoth tank in red alert must cost 1000 dollars (slightly more expensive then the heavy tank) instead of 1600 while they have more health and deal more damage, can shoot both ground and air units (yes they got rockets) and they regenerate health untill 50% of their maximum while the only downside is that they are very slow.

Also the thing about a parallel kam universe might not exactly be true. People might have omplained about the mounted units being way too strong and thus they would either be made weaker or their costs would be increased. the only problem is that you would miss a sprite for the 3rd growth stage for the horses. but you never know because the parallel kam univrse does not exist.

[pawel95]

@up: I mean tactic without leather, only horses. Because I think mix horses with leather, can be very risky.

Yeah this is exactly the point. I love the horses in KaM really. However there are some smart guys laughing about my whole army, but they don´t know how hard it is to have like >16 horses after 60 Min and a nice army with leather.

I havent found a nice combination vs. pro gamers with leather and horses. Horse + iron is more possible, but than you need a really nice spam with milita and swords to play nice


pawel95

[dicsoupcan]

@up: I mean tactic without leather, only horses. Because I think mix horses with leather, can be very risky.

Yeah this is exactly the point. I love the horses in KaM really. However there are some smart guys laughing about my whole army, but they don´t know how hard it is to have like >16 horses after 60 Min and a nice army with leather.

I havent found a nice combination vs. pro gamers with leather and horses. Horse + iron is more possible, but than you need a really nice spam with milita and swords to play nice


pawel95

you can always trade 1 or 2 of them in the market for 6 trunks each.that is what i do at least with leather + iron.

[pawel95]

Well but professional ponyriders aren´t talking about 1-2 horses. I mean what you can do with them? Kill some xbows or bows, yes. Howeveronly when the number of xbows is not to high....

[Ben]

Well but professional ponyriders aren´t talking about 1-2 horses. I mean what you can do with them? Kill some xbows or bows, yes. Howeveronly when the number of xbows is not to high....

If the enemy isn't training Xbows, then you're probably more likely to be training sword-fighters, right?

[The Dark Lord]

One or two horses can be enough to scare a group of crossbowmen/bowmen, thus making your losses significantly lower.

[pawel95]

One or two horses can be enough to scare a group of crossbowmen/bowmen, thus making your losses significantly lower.

Scaring yeah but not more and Knights arent only good against archers or xbows in my eyes. When someone is rushing with a huge number of milita, the good using of like 18 knights is like the best thing you could have in that moment. I have won some really nice games, where someone spammed me with many militas and than the militas are just like dying flies at that moment. With 3 horses you cannot do anything there...


..I also don´t know what Ben wanna tell me, but If I understand him rightly than I must say, that I cannot see before PT if the enemy will make xbows or not, so only making horses, because you wanna "scare" or kill them is really risky.

[Ben]

..I also don´t know what Ben wanna tell me, but If I understand him rightly than I must say, that I cannot see before PT if the enemy will make xbows or not, so only making horses, because you wanna "scare" or kill them is really risky.

That you can't see what the enemy has during PT is my point; although, you can always make some soldiers after PT.

[Jeronimo]

In this case, there is nothing healthier than trying it (3 corn x 1 horse, same slow work rate).

Because many players seem to forget the starvation issues when going primary for "many horses".
It's not only battles, KaM is also about economic success...

Horses can be countered quite soon after opponent updates his army adding lances+pikes, while he protects with towers.
Unless he just "neglectes" the menace and keeps training many ranged units (mistake from several players).

Is it possible to try the "real impact" of this feature?
Speculations are nice, but too much ends sinking the proposal.

[Da Revolution]

Because many players seem to forget the starvation issues when going primary for "many horses".
It's not only battles, KaM is also about economic success...

I got more problems when focusing mainly on leather. It's really easy to keep your food up when going for many horses.

Is this worth trying? I'm quite sure that most people will say no, just like me.

[pawel95]

..I also don´t know what Ben wanna tell me, but If I understand him rightly than I must say, that I cannot see before PT if the enemy will make xbows or not, so only making horses, because you wanna "scare" or kill them is really risky.

That you can't see what the enemy has during PT is my point; although, you can always make some soldiers after PT.

Ah ok This right. However making horses takes longest time in KaM. You can easily make some pikes, but building 1-2 stables, take some time, also feeding up to first horse takes some time and come on, you cannot trade like 270 stones for 10 horses really fast?! XD