Tree Growth

[Ben]

Perhaps this has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum... I couldn't find it if it so.
Still, concerning the growth rate of trees, how long does it take for them to grow? Since wooden weapons cost so much timber, have we ever tested making trees grow faster? That would make it less necessary to trade for tree-trunks at the marketplace.
It seems to me that acquiring wooden weapons should be cheaper and easier than iron weapons. Since it seems like the games are often decided before (I haven't watched many replays so forgive me ignorance) iron runs out, the theory that wooden has the advantage of not running out (like iron) doesn't seem to hold firm.

I'm not too sure about this but I'm just wondering. Is there a way that I could test this myself?
I'm also curious about other's viewpoint on this.

[Da Revolution]

I would like faster growing trees, but it won't fix the market (ab)use since people will just use both. The cost of wooden weapons is fine and they are quite easy to get.

Maybe you could test it this way:
- Let the woodcutter plant 1 tree and set a timer
- Put him only cutting trees
- Watch the tree grow and stop the timer when the woodcutter walks to it.

[The Dark Lord]

I don't like this idea at all, it's just shifting the problem to the poor trees while the problem lies within the marketplace. Making trees grow faster is bad for game balance because it has much more effects than you might think. My biggest concern is this: more timber means more weapons --> tactics like mass militia will be overpowered because it is much easier to produce large amounts of weapons. We don't want to make it easier to produce timber the normal way, we want to make it harder to produce timber the wrong way. Also, for people who abuse the marketplace already, this is just another bonus.

[Krom]

I have a little different view on KaM warfare. KaM was mainly a SP game with campaigns aimed at slow gameplay (certain missions up to 6-7 hours). Also campaign missions were progressively unlocking new and better houses and units. I see it that iron weapons are an upgrade, replacement to wooden ones. There is no intended balance of wood vs iron because of that. Iron is just better.

[The Dark Lord]

I disagree, if mass militia turns out to be unbeatable, everyone will use it.

[Ben]

...Making trees grow faster is bad for game balance because it has much more effects than you might think...We don't want to make it easier to produce timber the normal way, we want to make it harder to produce timber the wrong way. Also, for people who abuse the marketplace already, this is just another bonus.

These effects you speak of are the effects I actually wanted to see via testing. Still your second point here (we want to make it harder to produce timber the wrong way) is an excellent observation. However, my theory was this: Has timber gotten to the point where it is so valuable that people would prefer to spend their iron on crossbows than timber on longbows? That really isn't a problem, but longbows should be cheaper than crossbows in my opinion.

[sado1]

I would like faster growing trees, but it won't fix the market (ab)use since people will just use both.

I agree, but:

We don't want to make it easier to produce timber the normal way, we want to make it harder to produce timber the wrong way.

What if we did both at the same time? Marketplace is now a faster way to produce wood and it doesn't need that much buildings (well you have to make additional coal mines but they don't need as much place as woodcutters do). Why don't we have problem now with "too many wood => too powerful militia spam", if trading for wood is already faster than woodcutters? I'd say, in my opinion Marketplace way needs to be much harder, but woodcutter way needs to be a bit easier.

[Ben]

I think that perhaps people (including myself) are starting to get a little picky. I have come to the conclusion that tree growth shouldn't be changed (though I'd still like to test it).
But obviously the marketplace needs huge testing and such. After all, we have nothing to reference it to. E.g. the combat system can be made similar to KaM, but the marketplace has no such thing to compare to.
Either way, these conversations are all carrying the same monotonous note.

[Ben]

I've played several games lately, and I never seem to have enough timber. The maps I've been on don't start with a lot of trees, so that might actually be the problem.
Still, I wouldn't have been able to survive without the marketplace!

[The Dark Lord]

Why don't we have problem now with "too many wood => too powerful militia spam", if trading for wood is already faster than woodcutters?

Because people don't realize how strong it is