Re: Differences between remake and vanilla
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2012, 15:59
yes you can't dance that well anymore, but yes it is easier with horses just running into a group of ranged units
Talk about Knights and Merchants!
http://www.knightsandmerchants.net/forum/
http://www.knightsandmerchants.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1017
The first replay I watched to search for some examples shows what I mean. In the original the woodcutter will always plant trees in the centre of 4 tiles (in a square form) and that's why I'm used to build roads straight instead of diagonal towards to woodcutter's house. To create as much possible space for the woodcutter to plant trees. But it seems that in the Remake the woodcutter doesn't always use every 4 tile square to plant a tree. Of course this can only be noticed when the woodcutter is idle and waits for the trees to grow. That's why I've added another screen. It's hard to see how much space there is in a replay because of the elevation but I'm pretty sure some show clearly what I mean.
Well, I don't have proof of this but it was the first thing I noticed when playing the remake that towers are harder to take down using bowmen/xbows. is anyone in the mood for testing it in the original?
I said slightly, but I think it's even better. Just look at the way they slice trough militia like never before, hehe. And also against xbows. That's another thing I like to bring up btw. Why does the xbow has 2 armor but is killed way easier then, lets say an axeman who has only 1 armor? The knight most of the time has to hit once to kill a xbow. I can't remember this from the original. And against bowmen it's real slaughter. Has it something to do with the flanking system used in the Remake? I do know knights are better in the Remake because the arrows aren't that accurate against moving targets, which I think is a very good idea. I also think knights are better against pikemen, I've had several times 10-12 knights own 6 pikemen. For some proof of knights slicing through militia look at the shoutcast from Back in the Desert. I once killed a large group of militia (I think it was around 50) with only 10 or 12 knights and I had 2 knights left. On the other hand I've also seen my knights killed way too easy in some games. Ofcourse I can't proof if there is a difference but it feels like it's not the same as in the original. To conclude I think the knight is well balanced and shouldn't be nerfed at all. Remember one single knight cost you 10 coal, 3 iron and 4 grain + the time it takes to produce all this and they have some hard counters.
One other thing. Should the archers always hit the clostest target? Yes, it seems logic but what we see are some players (actually TDL himself is most known for this, hehe) 'dance' around with a single knight on the frontline to distract enemy arrows. I do this myself sometimes, it is smart but it looks a bit unatural thb.
Units will still fight diagonally, as long as there isn't a tree in the way or another unit fighting diagonally across that line (which is the same in KaM). Can you make a screenshot to show what you mean? (with F11 -> Debug -> Units turned on so we can see what they are doing)
I haven't noticed that. The only difference between KaM and the Remake is that if one archer from the group sees an enemy, he will tell all his friends and they all turn around to shoot too. In KaM the one archer would just shoot on his own. This happens when one guy gets bumped out of the way by another unit and ends up facing a different direction.
Is that what you were referring to?
Yes they do pick the closest targets, I'm not sure whether this is a good thing or not. Often the closest targets are the biggest threat, plus a far away target might be walking out of range in which case the arrow/rock will miss him. It also means archers will usually concentrate their fire all onto the same targets so they do more damage to a few units, rather than doing a small amount of damage to many units (who will be restoring their hitpoints anyway)
What do other people think? Closest target or random target?
Yeap, i meant this. But also just trunk bloking units. And in TSK/TPR trees and trunks only bloking walking diagonally, but not fighting.( checked)
I haven't noticed that. The only difference between KaM and the Remake is that if one archer from the group sees an enemy, he will tell all his friends and they all turn around to shoot too. In KaM the one archer would just shoot on his own. This happens when one guy gets bumped out of the way by another unit and ends up facing a different direction.
Is that what you were referring to?
Also meant this. But i hate this. Soldiers wont turn without orders. It kills some fun, when i.e going my knight to attack shooters from behind, and they turning and killing my horse( when player even didnt noticed my horse or thath he has been attacked)
I vore for random target. It makes game more iteresting in my opinion( and single player lots easier). Dancing with single horse wont be efficient like now, but it isnt main reason. Many times battles look like that: Player A have mass xbows and some meat shield, player B also. So without flanking winner will be guy, who had more meat sheild. But with random target will be possible to move little group of xbows very close to our meele and trying shooting enemy xbows from our infantry behind( like it was in original TSK). Ofc, it will also makes infantry charge more efficient against ranged, which is imho good. I Hope you understand my point.
About diagonally they should fight in my opinion. And walking trunks( but not trees, however it can be probably hard to do, im right?) It isnt natural for me, that stupid trunk or tree can prevent fight.
About turning. In TSK/TPR even if single archer from group seen enemy and was turned in differnce side than others, he didnt start shooting. For me now shooters are too wilfull. And as i wrote it kills some fun, when after hard mikro they turning on and kill horse ;/
Well, but if group will be even little diffuse like after feed and archers will be turned each other random it will be never possible to sneak them, cause always they will fire.
Hot keys have already been added, they'll be in the next version.
it's great that the community can bring stuff like this to our attention!