Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **16 Nov 2011, 20:37**

I know that delivery system will be improved, but I want to to report that problem is not only with "lazy" and choosing not optimal way serfs, but also with wares distribution. Serfs delivers wares more often to closer workshop. In extreme case I had serious crisis becaouse they didnt deliver any coal to Metallurgist's. Also it is always hard to make weapon smithy and armor smithy working all the time and get the same number of armor and wempon.
Maybe the distribution of wares menu should specify not the stock limit but the propotions of supply between workshops.

What if the distribution of wares set a priority instead?

Although-- other than when many of my serfs are killed-- I don't find this to be a huge problem. If it is extremely urgent for me to get supplies to a certain building, than I just press the "Turn off delivery of wares" button.

PostPosted: **16 Nov 2011, 21:34**

If dragging roads will be implemented then I'd say it needs to be check boxed in the options menu.

PostPosted: **16 Nov 2011, 21:47**

If dragging roads will be implemented then I'd say it needs to be check boxed in the options menu.

It shouldn't hinder you too much but sure i agree it could be optional.

PostPosted: **16 Nov 2011, 23:16**

Oeh oeh oeh, I had one.
Dragging roads and farm land and shit. Either that or place the square client sided anyways and check with the server if its okay. This laggy road building is anoying

Sounds like a good idea to me

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 01:51**

Yes there are serious delivery problems, and it really makes no sense for the sliders to set the MAXIMUM number of wares that can go to that house. I think they implemented it that way in KaM because they needed to save CPU cycles and a system like ours (each possible delivery has a "cost" calculated for it and the best one is chosen) would have been too much for processors back in 1997. And yes, currently if you put a building further away nothing will be delivered to it, it will all go to the closer building. This is very frustrating and will be fixed when we improve deliveries.

I think road dragging is a good idea, I'll discuss it with Krom. Jecy actually implemented it a while ago and offered to commit it for us, but I wanted to discuss it first. Do you think it needs to be optional? Because you can still use the click to place system we currently have with dragging enabled. How often do you accidentally drag while you have the mouse clicked to place a road? Very rarely I think, so it can probably always be turned on.

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 07:01**

I think road dragging is a good idea, I'll discuss it with Krom. Jecy actually implemented it a while ago and offered to commit it for us, but I wanted to discuss it first. Do you think it needs to be optional? Because you can still use the click to place system we currently have with dragging enabled. How often do you accidentally drag while you have the mouse clicked to place a road? Very rarely I think, so it can probably always be turned on.

Time will tell

And what about not relying on the other clients for marking a tile. I feels so unresponsive to me right now.

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 07:36**

Time will tell And what about not relying on the other clients for marking a tile. I feels so unresponsive to me right now.

We could possibly implement that from the visual point of view as a "fake" marker that is placed there. The problem is, if we place a real marker there it will start to effect gameplay (e.g. a labourer might decide to build it) so your client will be out of sync to everyone else. Our system works by user input being executed at exactly the same time on all clients, which means only a very small amount of data is transferred and the server does not need to know anything about the game. The simulation runs on each client (starting with the same deterministic random seed) and any input that will effect the outcome of the game, e.g. placing a road or giving a soldier a command is executed on each client at the same time, hence there is a delay.
So yes we could probably add "fake" markers so you can see where you've placed roads, then they will be added for real after the network delay. It's a good idea because right now road placing is difficult to use

It's added to the features list.

However we can't do this for something like soldiers, there will always be a delay when commanding them. If the soldiers on your client reacted sooner then they would be in a different position to other clients and the game would go completely out of sync.

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 08:03**

Dragging roads and farm land and things like that.

Good point! I think that would be a nice addition to the gameplay.

This laggy road building is anoying

I agree, but I can live with it. If there's no way to solve it, I don't mind. If there is, it would be nice.

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 12:39**

Will there be an option to drag diagonal roads? (Using 14 stones for length of 10 tiles, the old way you decided to use.) Another thing that also came up with: It would be nice to be able to make 90 degree turns and continue dragging by pressing Shift.

You'll probably hear these kind of suggestions from lazy players (which I don't belong in my opinion

) but I decided to bringh forth them as you started discussion about this.

E: Btw, it's my 100th post. 8)

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 12:54**

Well what I had in mind for dragging was that as you moved your cursor around road markers would be created under it on which ever tiles it is over. So you can do 90 degree turns by just moving your cursor like that, and diagonals by moving your cursor diagonal and possibly zigzagging a bit. So you don't need to press shift or anything.
Congrats!

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 13:18**

One question to Lewin or Krom:

Yor have write this: "Added a game clock below the minimap to see how it fits. What do you think? It's very useful."
What does it mean? Why a clock?

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 17:01**

Yor have write this: "Added a game clock below the minimap to see how it fits. What do you think? It's very useful."
What does it mean? Why a clock?

It's just a counter that tells you how long the game has been going on for, in the form: hh:mm:ss. In multiplayer games it will count down to the end of peacetime (I think), so it's useful to know how much time you have left

Roads

I don't think road dragging needs to be optional because, as Lewin said, you would still be able to click to place a road.

I think Anno 1602 has a very good road building system. You can see it at 2:15 of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXnjBrl2Yaw

Basically, you can still click to place a single bit of road. But if you click and drag, it will draw what the road would look like if built, between the point where you first clicked and the position of the cursor. When you release the mouse button, the road is built.

That way, if you accidentally move the cursor to the wrong place, you can still correct it without building the roads; just don't release the mouse button until you have it in the right place.

If the line from the road origin to the cursor is not a straight line, it will travel towards the cursor first in one axis, then in another.

Hope that makes sense!

Danjb

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 18:30**

[....]

ahh ok, the peace time. This would be cool.
And by seeing your anno video, yes I like the roads and not only in the 1602, i?ve played the demo in 2070(the new game) and it?s the same system,I think: Very very good!

PostPosted: **17 Nov 2011, 20:24**

Time will tell And what about not relying on the other clients for marking a tile. I feels so unresponsive to me right now.
We could possibly implement that from the visual point of view as a "fake" marker that is placed there. The problem is, if we place a real marker there it will start to effect gameplay (e.g. a labourer might decide to build it) so your client will be out of sync to everyone else. Our system works by user input being executed at exactly the same time on all clients, which means only a very small amount of data is transferred and the server does not need to know anything about the game. The simulation runs on each client (starting with the same deterministic random seed) and any input that will effect the outcome of the game, e.g. placing a road or giving a soldier a command is executed on each client at the same time, hence there is a delay.
So yes we could probably add "fake" markers so you can see where you've placed roads, then they will be added for real after the network delay. It's a good idea because right now road placing is difficult to use It's added to the features list.

However we can't do this for something like soldiers, there will always be a delay when commanding them. If the soldiers on your client reacted sooner then they would be in a different position to other clients and the game would go completely out of sync.

I was specifically implying the fake marker.

We don't want it to become like the TPR multiplayer. Me and my brother once defeated each other

PostPosted: **18 Nov 2011, 03:54**

We could do it like you showed in Anno 1602, but I'm worried that some of the charm of building a long road would be lost if you just clicked and dragged it. There's something nice about placing each square to be built and hearing the satisfying thump sound of them being placed... But I guess it doesn't really matter. We can do it that way eventually, but it's not a priority. (it's on the features list to make dragging possible in one form or another)

I was specifically implying the fake marker. We don't want it to become like the TPR multiplayer. Me and my brother once defeated each other

Yeah I've done that too

The KaM Remake will detect that as it routinely compares random seeds between clients so any difference in the simulation will be detected quickly (as so much depends on random numbers)

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