Shadaoe's maps

[Lewin]

I think it looks good so far
I don't think it matters much if the center corridore becomes a bit more narrow, but I think you should still have an inventive to build out there, in the original there was more iron and coal, and when I played it the players who built out into the middle had an advantage for their efforts.

[Shadaoe]

Thanks !

Yes i'll still add ressources in the middle, I'll see how to make it interesting, but it's going to be quite a challenge since I'll have to let enough room for armies to maneuver :p

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

I'm sorry, but I think it's horrible. But I don't like The Valley of Dangers too, so..

[Krom]

The map is looking good, very promising

[Shadaoe]

I'm sorry, but I think it's horrible. But I don't like The Valley of Dangers too, so..

In which way is it horrible ? What are the things you dislike ?

The map is looking good, very promising

Thanks ! I tried to make it natural, i'm glad you like it :p

I'll work on this map today, and I'll also check how it is to play in these new areas.

[sado1]

I'm not convinced about that corridor, since for me the main fun of TVOD1 was building outside, but I get it, there's no way to do it differently. If I were you I'd make extra coal in the corridor (just as in TVOD1) but leave additional iron inside the bases - maybe even at right instead of left. Not sure if that's what you want, but gameplay would then become very similar to TVOD1.

[Shadaoe]

Thanks for your ideas !
I'm planning to add extra coal to the valley, as in the first version yes. For extra iron and gold, I'm still unsure, but I think i'll add some very little moutains in the corridor, but as you may have noticed, there's already a third spot for gold and iron in the bases in the new version, instead of 2 for each in the old one. I'm also thinking of adding, in the valley, some little ponds (small lakes, I hope it's the right word :p) with some fish, to make it more attractive.
I don't think i'll move the iron and gold to the right, it would be too easy to access, and make the city too stretched around the storehouse, I playtested TVoD 2 as it is right now, and I think it's pretty well balanced.

What do you think about iron and gold in the valley, would it be a good idea ? Because there are already 3 spots of each in the player's area
edit : what you think about iron mainly, since i'm now sure that i'll at least add some gold in the middle

[Lewin]

I don't think there's much use putting water with fish in the corridor, fish isn't a resource worth fighting for (you can always make farms which give an infinite supply of food) Coal, iron and gold on the other hand are well worth fighting for because they're very limited.

I also agree that building out was the interesting part of this map. From the look of your screenshot there's not enough coal in the player's area to use up all the gold/iron (each gold take 1 coal, each iron takes 2 coal) so maybe put lots of coal in the corridor to make it worth fighting for, but still allow people to manoeuvre their armies over the coal. (unlike iron/gold hills)

[Shadaoe]

Hmmm you're right, fish won't make people want to go out of their areas ...

It'll be challenging to put gold, iron and coal (especially the first two) in the valley, but i'll try to do that.
Her's a (really) quick first draw of how it would look like, do you think there's enough room for armies ? I'm not sure about that :s


Also, here's the progress on the player's area, I hope it's better.

[Lewin]

Yeah it's not enough room for armies with the iron/gold hills in the corridor, so I'd just put coal there. BUT I had an idea for how you can still get iron/gold there Put some iron into the sides that divide the corridor from the player's area, then put the only place to mine it from on the edge of the corridor. (it only needs to stick out far enough for 3 flat tiles)

You could do the same with gold if you make the divisions between the corridor and player's area out of gold hill in some places. (maybe left side iron, right side gold? Although that means in left vs right games one side has more iron, the other more gold)
I think the idea is interesting, the corridor would have: Iron on the left, coal in the middle, gold on the right. This means you can still fit armies in the middle because there's only coal there. What do you think?

Please be aware that gold/iron miners do not care whether the hills are connected, they will mine anywhere within a certain radius So don't put the player's mines too close to the areas of the side of the corridor that can be mined.
Cheers,
Lewin.

[Shadaoe]

I think you just got THE idea that I needed Thanks a lot !
For the iron, it's quite easy if I do that !
I think iron left / gold right would be the easiest way, but i'm concerned by how unfair it would be (in left vs right but also in top vs bottom, as some of the players would have to do more roads to have a certain mineral than their teammates).
I think I've got the right solution, I just did a little gold mine and added some blockers to prevent any nasty archers to attack from the outside, and I think it'll work like a charm ! The armies will storm their way through the valley again ! :p

It isn't likely to stay here in the final version, that was just a test, but I think you just solved my problem ! Thanks again !

[Lewin]

Yes something like that could work quite well
By the way, I think a big improvement to the terrain quality would be to make the player areas slightly higher than the corridor, so it really is like a valley. If you use elevate plateau in Krom's editor you should be able to raise the entire area evenly. Then make the entrance to the player's area slope down into the "valley". It might be difficult to get it right, but it could make the map much much natural looking because it's a very flat map at the moment, and just making little mounds within the player's area isn't really enough, you need some areas that are completely higher than others.

Don't overdo it though, just a little bit higher otherwise you won't be able to make mountains properly in the player's area because the ground there will be too high to raise further.

[Shadaoe]

This is interesting, I'll do it ! as you said it'll make it feel more like a real valley, great idea ! :p

and just making little mounds within the player's area isn't really enough

Well the player's area is almost the only thing I already did, that was my primary focus, I tried to mix "little mounds" and more "large-scale" relief (ex : the quite big hill with "crackled" ground on it), should I do even more large scale ? (speaking about the player's area only)

[Lewin]

Well the player's area is almost the only thing I already did, that was my primary focus, I tried to mix "little mounds" and more "large-scale" relief (ex : the quite big hill with "crackled" ground on it), should I do even more large scale ? (speaking about the player's area only)

By large scale elevation, I mean that some areas of the map are higher than others, but you don't notice it except where the two areas meet. So it's not like a mound or hills, it's just that one part of the map is higher.
The lowest elevation should not be the "default" for all areas, but unfortunately because the map editor starts off like that, that's the way everyone makes maps.
Examples of large scale elevation:
TSK 1: The yellow's base in the top right, that entire area is quite high, try un-elevating it in Krom's editor, you'll find it becomes very flat.
TSK 1: Your own base is quite elevated, then it slopes down to the river/ocean. You don't notice it because it's like the ground is just higher there, but as I said try de-elevating it and you'll see what I mean
TSK 7: Your own base is not at ground level, it slopes down near the beach.
TSK 7: The top enemy base is very highly elevated, which creates a nice effect of it being on top of a mountain overlooking the other enemy base.
TSK 8: Below the stonehill in your base is fairly flat, but above it is highly elevated.

This creates a nice effect of natural flowing elevation, not mounds and lumps in the terrain that look artificial. I've never seen a place where all the ground is mostly at the same height, except maybe The Netherlands For example in most places, the ground past the beach is higher than the ocean/river, and although it's a subtle effect it can really make KaM maps look nice. (take TSK 1 or 7 as examples) Unfortunately a lot of fan made maps most of the ground is at exactly the same level as the ocean/rivers, which isn't at all realistic.

[Shadaoe]

Thanks for the exemples, I see what you mean. I'll try to do that, I hope I can come up with something that looks good !

not mounds and lumps in the terrain that look artificial.

Do you mean that they actually look too artificial on the WIP screen ? I can try to improve them if that's the case