1st 2x2 championship KaMClub.ru.

[Krom]

Because it's an open championship and everyone can participate in it. Because organizers should follow general idea of fair competition and adapt rules to circumstances for mutual profit (like Bur does), not escalate conflicts and xenophobia (like Kirill). Because rules are just a reflection of ideals into real world, and if real world does not fit into the rules we should take ideal into account and "bend" rules sometimes too.

[Lord_Stronghold]

but that guys who did not make application form at the time (for being participants of main bracket), could make it earlier, so it is their problem I think. For example, if I made the application form on last battle tournament after 16 guys, I should be in reserve. I think this rules are fair. Competition cannot be held when we have too much participants or matches. Remember powah tournament - the guys which was defeated after first round were not added to loser bracket.

[Krom]

@Lord: Applications are allowed till 03 Nov, today is only 30 Oct.

Lets take imaginary situation with 4 and 6 teams (where you have 4 guys in reserve, which is just about much as you miss for next 8 teams tier) and 16 and 17 solo participants.

In the first case you can bend the rules to favor of 4 players without spoiling the champ. In other words - you gain more for the effort.

Re-rigging whole 16 players just to accommodate late applicant means lot of effort with relatively smaller gain. In other words - it's better to keep him in reserve, chances are one of 16 players will miss his time are much higher than in first case.

Powah tournament has its weakness in games grid, thats true - what do you want to fix now? It would only help in 2nd Powah to pursue organizers into using more balanced Olympics grid.

[sado1]

I agree with Lord Stronghold, there wouldn't be a problem for me, if the only reason why non-Russian teams were not included, was because they were late and it would be difficult to make a ladder with 10 teams (and indeed Matt's team was 9., because he thought he can apply in international forum topic as well, so he wasted some time thinking that writing here is enough). However it is a nice gesture from Bur, I like the fact that he wants to prove there's no problem with foreigners. But as I said, Bur is not the problem. The problem, as Krom said, is Kirill's attitude. I hope for a response from him, I always thought he's a cool guy and I'd feel bad if I had to change my opinion.

[Kirelareus]

I agree with Lord Stronghold, there wouldn't be a problem for me, if the only reason why non-Russian teams were not included, was because they were late and it would be difficult to make a ladder with 10 teams (and indeed Matt's team was 9., because he thought he can apply in international forum topic as well, so he wasted some time thinking that writing here is enough). However it is a nice gesture from Bur, I like the fact that he wants to prove there's no problem with foreigners. But as I said, Bur is not the problem. The problem, as Krom said, is Kirill's attitude. I hope for a response from him, I always thought he's a cool guy and I'd feel bad if I had to change my opinion.

Υou can think about me and clan everything, that you want. But i'll not save silent, when somebody will talk about us like that:
"[R.A] Sucks" by Fried Chicken
"Damned russians' by Beerzoeper
Or this: http://km.my1.ru/_fr/10/9611817.jpg
and many other interrsting
I think, that there are simply some persons, who just laughs at us.

You saιdthat I'm a hypocrite. BTW, Who're Matt, Mulberry then? Fighters for justice?
What is justice when people allow themselves to insults to players? if we are insulted, you should know, we'll answer.

ΒΤW, Yes, I have no excuse, that I allowed myself to such words.

[Lord_Stronghold]

2Krom

Applications are allowed till 03 Nov, today is only 30 Oct.

but bracket is for 8 teams. As KaM club battle tournament bracket for 16 players. If we include more players in 1 bracket - tournament will be endless. But remember, some of start-players were not able to play, and they were changed for another players.

it's better to keep him in reserve, chances are one of 16 players will miss his time are much higher than in first case.

oh, yes, that is true. However 16 players played in battle tournament! Battles are not such long as economy games.

Powah tournament has its weakness in games grid, thats true - what do you want to fix now? It would only help in 2nd Powah to pursue organizers into using more balanced Olympics grid.

I think powah tour was good, but it would be better in those case do not use loser bracket at all (or for all rounds, but Mulb was write when he said that it will make tournament too long). So when we make tournaments on economy games - we should keep in mind this circumstance all time, especially during making reglament.

2Sado

I agree with Lord Stronghold, there wouldn't be a problem for me, if the only reason why non-Russian teams were not included,

yes, however we already have non-russian players in main bracket.

. However it is a nice gesture from Bur, I like the fact that he wants to prove there's no problem with foreigners

maybe but I am afraid of changing championship system, cause it can make tournament canceled. Like Christmas tournament.

[Krom]

@Lord: I'm more than sure, if there are 16 teams the grid will be expanded to fit them all. The grid is a championships servant, not vice versa.

[Mulberry]

I already wrote in the chat, I will write again here: "Sorry to join in such an interesting discussion of this championship KaMсlub.ru is the sixth in a row, and there were always only the users of this site (aliens who are just new in the forum do not count =)). And many people would like to see this championship was exclusively Russian, similar to a internal selection. And Krom ... he did not know about it =) "

Vovets, as i've allready mentioned: the tournament was anounced here and after discussion (dated 14.10.2012 on kamclub.ru) no one even talked about canceling "foreigners" participation. And as you can see on this forum no one anounced changes. So what are you talking about is unoficial incide position of some kamclub users. Am i right?

I don't think your posts are the problem here... you were talking with sense and "defended" the foreign players. What's more sad is seeing posts of Kirelareus - funny behaviour for a super moderator... It's possible he just hates Matt though. But if I was organizing a tournament I'd rather let someone play and kick him only if he caused problems.

Sado, yes. The problems is that intolerance from supermoderator of the forum wich is tolerated by users and administration. Messeges with xenofobic content were on kamclub forum from 14.10.2012 up to 29.10.2012. I do not think a person behaveing like this can be a moderator. Also, why i pointed on his status is because he responded on aplication form. Wich means he have seen it on time and he could delivere this massage to tournament org's.

I agree with Lord Stronghold, there wouldn't be a problem for me, if the only reason why non-Russian teams were not included, was because they were late and it would be difficult to make a ladder with 10 teams (and indeed Matt's team was 9., because he thought he can apply in international forum topic as well, so he wasted some time thinking that writing here is enough).

Mattew's team wasn't 9th. The registraion form were seen when only 4 teams registred. As i've allready said it was 14.10.2012. So the aplication form were not ignored, it were discussed!

I think this is silly reaction from Russian forum members. Champ rules do not say anything about nationality of participants. Furthermore, when we discussed the champ ideas with Bur he always looked forward to make them international and attract more players, make KaM less segregated into nationalities.

Krom, Bur,, I am looking forward for comunicating and organizing things together. When we did powah tournament 2vs2 i wrote lots of private masegges to russian comunity members and they helped me a lot. Div consulted me about ladders and tournament systems, Bur said that he will help with posting all the anounced on kamclub.ru if its needed. Guys Frans and Mike were helping a lot with advertising. Same as Kirelareus , he was behaving nice and as i remember he even consulted us about tournament rules. But his team had problems with time management and it was looking like he could not play because of early tournament star. In organisation crew we decided to DELAY tournament for HIS TEAM. So it started 3 days after we planned wich i think is very good. Because we were not allowed to miss participation of such an important person for russian KaM comunity, he is playing long-long time and he is a chief of R.A.
And after all this i have a big wound because i was always searching for compromises with russian players. I've translated Powah Tournament rules into russian (completly) wich were pretty hard to do. I've comunicated with russian players on kamclub forum and put lots of effort in motivation them. I think it was quite warm atmosphere. It was nice. It looked like we are all together finaly. But it was my fairy dreams. Now we have this and i simply cant ignore what happened 2 weaks ago.

This situation isnt first. Last time when the powah tournament were nearly finished the supermoder, Kirelareus of kamclub closed tournament topic before orginiseres (i am one of them) anounced the ending of this event. And Bur helped very much to solve that situation out. I am very thanksfull for that, but it looks that after previous accident person didnt change his attitude. What is even more important that he influented other players. It is not a secret that people of R.A. spreading hate in lobbies. I guese lots of users of this forum can remember situations were this behavior had its place.
Not long time ago R.A. opened its embessy here and good kind people like Bence and SHadaoe joined the clan. I do not want them to be disrespected as Pizza Matt and Chicken.

I think we should prevent this intolerant words and attitudes together in future with fair actions.

[Lord_Stronghold]

Mattew's team wasn't 9th. The registraion form were seen when only 4 teams registred. As i've allready said it was 14.10.2012. So the aplication form were not ignored, it were discussed!

he made application form in those time on KaMclub forum or here? If here - it is wrong. This topic is not official topic of championship. It is just advertising, informing topic, nothing more I think.

[sado1]

Υou can think about me and clan everything, that you want. But i'll not save silent, when somebody will talk about us like that:
"[R.A] Sucks" by Fried Chicken
"Damned russians' by Beerzoeper
Or this: http://km.my1.ru/_fr/10/9611817.jpg
and many other interrsting
I think, that there are simply some persons, who just laughs at us.

You said that I'm a hypocrite. BTW, Who're Matt, Mulberry then? Fighters for justice?
What is justice when people allow themselves to insults to players? if we are insulted, you should know, we'll answer.

ΒΤW, Yes, I have no excuse, that I allowed myself to such words.

I won't say much about Chicken, I don't know him too well. About that screenshot... I can't say Florek's sense of humor is always proper I don't think Florek really wanted to spread hate in Russian community (probably just joking), although I can't say that about destruction - he's quite a decent player and I am sure he'd win quite some games in the tournament And about Beerzoeper... did he say that about R.A.? Because I've seen really many stupid Russians in this game (almost as many as stupid Polish guys ).

The problem was, we were not sure whether you just hate all the foreigners or just these particular ones. I am not surprised that you don't like some persons here, Matt has quite a nice group of haters (thanks to the Balance discussion topic I guess), but he's really a nice person (when he's not trolling :x). I don't have much bad to say about Mulberry, I guess you don't like him much after he made his post here, but I think he was right doing it, it's good we can discuss this stuff.

Lord Strong: I know there are some foreigners in the tournament but mostly they're close to Russian community (usually they're R.A. members, right?), there's not even one team with someone known on international forums (except, of course, Russians and foreign R.A. players).

Mulberry: the problem here is, apparently organizers don't think that applications on international forums were valid. Lord Stronghold made a post about Matt's application on international forums in the Russian forums topic, but Bur and/or whoever else makes the tournament with him, didn't see it or didn't think it was valid.

Also, about R.A. members behaviour... I remember complaining by myself here about some R.A. guy, but Kirill (or someone else?) was quick to say that he'll talk with the guy. R.A. has really many members and I don't think saying "many R.A. members spread hate at lobbies" is a proper way, Mulberry, so whoever thinks R.A. guys are impolite, should probably complain to their clan leader. I guess Kirill and co. would be very interested to change this opinion about their clan.

And please PLEASE guys let's have a polite discussion, remember that Mulberry is only sad about foreigners being disrespected. He doesn't want all Russians to be burned in hell

[vovets1]

This is why should we spread hatred? And yes, it is advisable that you do not say RA, as specified, for R.A large clan, and many of them do not know about what is happening in this topic.
I did not write on my own behalf, and on behalf of those who want to see only the Russian people in the championship. And by the way, we have opened an embassy there, we were joined by Bence, Shad, David, and a couple of people, and what's so bad?

[Krom]

I need to humbly quote first post (emphasize added):

Additional details (you will need GoogleTranslator) and submits for participation here: http://kamclub.ru/forum/30-1025-1

[Mercenary]

did impolite,we all all very politely discuss

[Mercenary]

This is why should we spread hatred? And yes, it is advisable that you do not say RA, as specified, for R.A large clan, and many of them do not know about what is happening in this topic.
I did not write on my own behalf, and on behalf of those who want to see only the Russian people in the championship. And by the way, we have opened an embassy there, we were joined by Bence, Shad, David, and a couple of people, and what's so bad?

i agree

[Kirelareus]

I undetstood, what's problem. Mulb showed you, how we "discriminate" foreigners?
It's provocaton! I have nothing against taking a part in our championships foreigners. But it should be our friends, not that, who hates us or dont't respect us (like Matt and Mulb).
Codex of honor.....raping market, how it make Matt and some other players, it's honor??? It's ridiculous!!!! I mean only this, nothing more!!!