Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 08:29**

I can see there are many different oppinions of the tower accuracy... First of all it's good to see that towers hit way more now than before. It should at least stay as it is right now. Also not aiming citizens is a good idea.

I would also give a little suggestion: IMO a 20% chance to miss an idle standing unit is quite too much (see Lewin's quote below). That means 1 of 5 stones will miss such a unit. I would prefer 10%.

Previously the jitter added for a moving target was 6*speed, now it's 4*speed. (speed=0.1 when walking, 0.15 when running/mounted IIRC). The base jitter (always added) has remained the same at 0.2. The jitter is the random amount added/subtracted from the position aimed for. So basically:
Target.X = Aim.X + Random_In_Both_Directions(base_jitter + speed*moving_jitter)
Target.Y = Aim.Y + Random_In_Both_Directions(base_jitter + speed*moving_jitter)

Random_In_Both_Directions(x) = random number between -x and +x
Please note that Aim is perfect, i.e. it is the exact position the target will be at if he keeps walking in a straight line. If he changes direction while the projectile is in the air (which units often do) it means the projectile is much more likely to miss.

The probability to hit is done like this: If it lands at 0 distance from a unit, it's guaranteed to hit. At 1 distance it's guaranteed to miss. At 0.5 it has a 50% chance of hitting the unit.

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 08:45**

Lets find a better solution than new checkboxes

Ok, I got this one minutes ago:
*Keep Towers as now -> attacking Soldiers and Citizens (3/5 current average performance).
*New addition: Enemy can't build (not even place fields/roads/wines) on a space close to your buildings of 6 tiles.

It creates a small "safe territory" around your buildings. 6 tiles is the range from towers, so you cant directly get closer to them (with labourers). For protecting them more... you can have backup buildings at 12 tiles from that tower.
No more "building trolling" from jerks, or fast exploration into your base (labourers have vision ratio 4, may detect where they can't go any further, but don't know what building is blocking their advancing).

This way you dont need to code Territory Borders for all maps and stuff which would require huge update (as now were the steep tiles from many maps).

Example: If 2 players place towers near each other and start building simultaneously, everything continues normally.
If player A finished his tower first, he might place more contructions around the zone before player B finishes his tower.
Once both towers are finished, they block each other at the same time...
So it's time to DESTROY BUILDINGS, if the fighting/expanding space is tight (statistics which are often low).
----------------------------------------------------

To sum up, Towers are fine and should remain untouched.
My suggestion adds to the game the "Building Area Protection" -> Make respect your territory and efforts in further expansion. Promotes destroying buildings in smaller maps, and works perfectly as an Anti-Troll measure.

Aclaration: Building Area Protection is shared with Team. So your allies can build near your houses.
Add-on: Press SHIFT to show current Building Area Protection. You will see double-lines of your color marking your territory -> A quick visual to see if opponent could sneak labourers and activate towers.
You can also see how far can you expand into neutral territory (no buildings around).

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 08:52**

No No No

I have a little sugestion:
Please see:
Add to tower new option

:
Attack All (default on)
Attack only Citizens
Attack only Soldiers
///////////////////////////
adjust to all towers
adjust to just this tower

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 09:24**

*New addition: Enemy can't build (not even place fields/roads/wines) on a space close to your buildings of 6 tiles.

It creates a small "safe territory" around your buildings. 6 tiles is the range from towers, so you cant directly get closer to them (with labourers). For protecting them more... you can have backup buildings at 12 tiles from that tower.

Brilliant idea, now there would be no need to implement territories and artificitally divide maps - your solution is fair, because it affects both players in the same way, and it's not as random and stupid as tower wars.

The only problem I can think of is when there's an natural obstacle between 2 players and someone gets blocked because the other guy built something at the other side of it... but surely it won't be that big of a problem if it's 6 tiles of space between them right? Also, what if 2 players are building 2 buildings at same time, and one finishes earlier?

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 09:53**

*New addition: Enemy can't build (not even place fields/roads/wines) on a space close to your buildings of 6 tiles.

It creates a small "safe territory" around your buildings. 6 tiles is the range from towers, so you cant directly get closer to them (with labourers). For protecting them more... you can have backup buildings at 12 tiles from that tower.
Brilliant idea, now there would be no need to implement territories and artificitally divide maps - your solution is fair, because it affects both players in the same way, and it's not as random and stupid as tower wars.

The only problem I can think of is when there's an natural obstacle between 2 players and someone gets blocked because the other guy built something at the other side of it... but surely it won't be that big of a problem if it's 6 tiles of space between them right? Also, what if 2 players are building 2 buildings at same time, and one finishes earlier?

Thanks sado1. I'm glad you liked this idea.

Doubt 1: 6 tiles distance is really short, if you compare witdhs of mountains or rivers, you will notice in 99% won't a problem... but in case it does... it will take a really small portion of your land -> 1-2 tiles? Insignificant.

Doubt 2: I tried to give an example above. It actually has to be with "who builds first" (finishing the complete building first) to confirm that area belongs to your kingdom.
If player A finishes first his tower, he blocks any further expansions around tower from player B.
Whenever player B finishes his tower (which construction was set before tower A finished), he blocks further expansions from player A.
However in the meanwhile (before tower B finished), player A could have set a number of roads and buildings taking advantage of his faster domination of that particular terrain.

What could have done player B if he were smart? Have backup area control, this means not making a big road and lonely tower, but create an expansive approach, so player A doesnt "block" your house building behind you (in your long empty road).

Remember is not about towers vs towers only, you could have taken that area with a simple woodcutter as well.
Again... what interests me, is that "destroying buildings" becomes a more valuable action.

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 11:57**

I like your idea Jeronimo.

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 13:02**

In a way that sounds like TheSettlers territory, but without Pioneers to manually expand it. I'm not sure KaM meets that kind of mechanics.

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 14:18**

In a way that sounds like TheSettlers territory, but without Pioneers to manually expand it. I'm not sure KaM meets that kind of mechanics.

The best comparison I can do now, is when you try to place a building next to another, you see the X's which don't allow you to place buildings next to each other, there must be always a space of 1 tile at least (this is basic building rule).

The intention is traslading that "negative view effect" to 6 tiles around each of your buildings, but to only affect enemy labourers.
Don't know of programming, but opponent's Cursor should consider those tiles as "Void" (black tile), completely unbuildable, because it musn't allow placing roads/wines/fields.

I understand this looks heavy work to program, but I think it gives solution to several problems -> For instance you won't need to modify current towers due to labourers rush, nor create "map territory limits" in future... And less trolling in this game

PostPosted: **27 Aug 2012, 15:44**

Maybe you could increase the amount of X's between towers? Not tower rush anymore, no problems.

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 11:43**

Maybe you could increase the amount of X's between towers? Not tower rush anymore, no problems.

yes, I agree.. very interesting idea for me

becouse very sad is that towers are efective against very expensive units, that doesen't make sense.. why my heavy armored unit must be killed on one shot? it makes me sad

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 11:47**

An example is mission 8 from TSK: how would you be able to defend if not 4-5 towers built closely and promptly?

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 13:32**

An example is mission 8 from TSK: how would you be able to defend if not 4-5 towers built closely and promptly?

I completely agree, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to build two towers next to each other in multiplayer if that's convenient to my position. I don't like unintuitive/artifical limits like population limits, max 10 towers, only 1 tower every 8 tiles, etc. I don't think it's fitting with KaM, in KaM for example population is limited by the need to feed your army. Towers should be limited by the fact they take time to build, use valuable space, cost resources, and only act as a temporary deterrent for the enemy.
If each tower only kills 3 units on average (can be less if you keep the units moving) then I don't really see how they're overpowered. Each tower is quite large and expensive, at least in terms of time. All that effort to kill just 3 enemy units? They only seem like a temporary deterrent to me. It's not really possible to restock them before the enemy has emptied all of your towers with e.g. militia so each tower usually only gets one chance to shoot at the enemy.

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 14:44**

Placing towers next to each other even decreases their power because there is a good chance that two stones will be thrown at the same victim, which is just a waste of resources.

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 16:38**

Well yes, still if you have 20 space wide to build towers, having 7 towers next to each other or just having 3, even when 2 towers trow a stone at the same, they will probably hit more soldiers than with only 3 towers.
But I think the problem with towers isn't that they kill maybe max 10 units, but more that when your charge with your soldiers, some of them will be killed by the towers while the others left will easily become in a 1 vs 3 situation, since you also don't have time to wait for more melee, because you're getting shot by enemy crosbow and some towers are getting refilled.

PostPosted: **28 Aug 2012, 21:02**

OFFTOPIC: Your map is refreshing, specially when you are tired of that typical "60 PT lots of building space".
But since few people understand how to play it, they will say: bad map, lets go big map for 8p... again

Thanks a lot, I hope people will test it before saying they don't like it :p

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