Towers

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

What to do?. There is a way. And it's very good. Enter the second archer towers for enemy units. (For residents), (​​is that seen in the alpha game), the tower is not attacked by military units. So that would not be a problem as you kill the archer on the tower.

(Archer would have increased the range of 3 cells. This way, you do not need to be placed on that tower every few meters.)

Archer towers have been discussed before and rejected.

I think we can stop people building stuff on your area with some kind of territories system for during peacetime. Towers aren't really a solution to this anyway because people can build into your area before you have towers, or at a place where you don't have towers.

So I still think making towers only target military units is a good idea, no more stupid builder rushes to empty towers

Totally agree.

[Lewin]

So I still think making towers only target military units is a good idea, no more stupid builder rushes to empty towers

How about making them prioritise military units? Would still mean that citizens cannot enter an enemy town, given that no military units are around. Or even better, add two checkboxes "Attack military units" and "Attack citizens". By default both would be checked.

Towers/archers actually already prefer military units to citizens. People can just send their builders first.
Checkboxes would work... but I don't like complicating things too much. You'd have to go change your towers to not attack citizens if you saw the enemy was builder rushing you.

[Siegfried]

Towers/archers actually already prefer military units to citizens. People can just send their builders first.
Checkboxes would work... but I don't like complicating things too much. You'd have to go change your towers to not attack citizens if you saw the enemy was builder rushing you.

How about that: towers only fire at citizens if they have more than 4 (or 3?) stones in stock.

So laborers still are attacked, so the tower fulfils its purpose; but citizens won't completely deacitvate the tower. Laborers usually don't change directions and they can't speed up. So it's likely that they die by one stone.

After all, the laborer's rush is not a completely idiotic maneuver. Each laborer costs gold and you still need them in late game to replace empty mines. So the laborer's rush really costs you resources, thus it's fair that its defense costs some resources, too.

[The Dark Lord]

Just shoot the builders with some crossbows... I understand the fuss but it's not that hard to prevent in my opinion. I've never been builder-rushed.

[Bo_]

Well I'm builder rushed all the time so.
And yes people could send builders to explore, but you can easily kill them with xbow after pt, and before pt well it's still less annoying than builder rush.
Also maybe an idea to reduce line of sight of builders by 2 and incrase it for serfs?
This would mean that you can't realy explore with builders, but when building long roads on undiscovered area's you would just have to wait until 1 serf comes to bring a stone so you can continue placing roads?

[Mulberry]

My opinion about towers i explained in the following topic. Please help the discussion: http://knightsandmerchants.net/forum/vi ... =26&t=1108

For moderator, I can copy text here but i dont think i need to spamm. Ando also i really suggest to look on this point systematicly, not partualy. So please follow a link.

[Jeronimo]

@Mr Bo: Builders exploration before PT will be history when in some future version Fog of War is implemented.
You might explore map, but that will be frustating and waste of time.

"Territory Limits" is fine as long as PT lasts, because expansions in opponent territory during war should be allowed.
Now this feature will make all Maps take another update.

But the real problem continues being: Labourers rush empty my towers (after PT).
I'm ok with Bo idea to shoot only the military... hello Militia again.

Kill any labourers with your troops. As Dark Lord said.

[Shadaoe]

Builder rush is annoying but the towers should still attack the citizens,because sometimes there are "tower wars" and the fastest to build the tower wins, but it wouldn't work if the towers didn't shoot at citizens.
Building a tower near an enemy road is also a way to kill citizens to weaken the enemy if they have to go through this road.

On a more personal note : I think the best gameplay on The Valley Of Dangers 2 is playing without PT and allowing tower wars, and it would be quite difficult if towers didn't attack citizens at all.

[Bo_]

Well personaly I think tower wars is patethic and retarded.

[Bo_]

Still, towers are too strong. I agree it's not fair to empty towers with builders, but on the other hand players have to empty them with builders because they're too strong. Like in mulberry' says in his post, with the food changes you have now a smaller army after pt so if you don't empty towers with your buildings you stand no chance.

[Jeronimo]

Valley of Dangers 2 is a cool map, I like the idea of no PT and Towers War, tough of course you can train militia since there is no PT, and can screw any building before it is finished.

Again, for towers only "shoot the military", first must be coded the "territory limits", so there aren't builders inside your territory (you can't kill them). With things as are now... still is possible to play nice.

Towers "increased accuracy" in fact make Labourers Rush less effective: 1 stone kills 1 chest.
And after PT, you should have some army in front of towers to prevent that move, or archers to kill them.

Too much whinnying...

[thunder]

hi!
the newer tower are much better than was. I hated when i spent on a lot time,stone (for the road) and timbers. So the towers need to work good.(minimum3kill/5stones) -one horseman was enough to unload the full tower system.
Now this version is good.

t

[Shadaoe]

Valley of Dangers 2 is a cool map, I like the idea of no PT and Towers War, tough of course you can train militia since there is no PT, and can screw any building before it is finished.

Yeah militia rush is kind of the problem if one can go through the towers, but I'm glad you like the idea of tower wars here, because I think it adds some fun strategy to "gain territory".

[Jeronimo]

Valley of Dangers 2 is a cool map, I like the idea of no PT and Towers War, tough of course you can train militia since there is no PT, and can screw any building before it is finished.

Yeah militia rush is kind of the problem if one can go through the towers, but I'm glad you like the idea of tower wars here, because I think it adds some fun strategy to "gain territory".

OFFTOPIC: Your map is refreshing, specially when you are tired of that typical "60 PT lots of building space".
But since few people understand how to play it, they will say: bad map, lets go big map for 8p... again
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I gave the Towers topic a rethinking...
Now I'm convinced respect Labourers Rush, that Towers should have "2 checkboxs" like our dear Woodcutters.
Would mean having another building where you can switch its behaviour -> Great!! (tough takes coding work for Developers).

* Attack Everyone.
* Attack Soldiers.

If it were coded towers "only attacking soldiers", then the tactic labourers rush would immediatly die, and you would need to make extra-coding for territory limits, which would take extra time also for configurating territories of all existing maps...

By this method "2 checkboxs", the opponent may give it a try... come to your towers defense and find his journey a useless try, so you then kill his labourers and he doesn't get any benefits, just many loses... but trying was worthy he will say

This is similar to when you close towers (not bring rocks)... you have just to remember to switch to "Soldiers" because "Everyone" will be the default. In other game types (such as Valley of Dangers 2) having towers in default is far more useful.

[Krom]

Lets find a better solution than new checkboxes