Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 01:55**

Timeline

I like the timeline graph in AoC

Yeah that's pretty neat

Maybe we can add something like that in future.

Update: We've pretty much finished the graphs and decided how it will be for the next release, so I thought I'd post the screenshots here for comment.

After some discussion we decided that showing the instantaneous amount of resources in your village is pointless. As Krom pointed out, a pro player will only have 10-20 of most resources during the game, and a noob player will end up with excess resources he can't process. This means a noob player will show bigger/more impressive lines than a pro player, which is confusing and doesn't really tell you anything about how well the player's went.

Instead we've decided to make it show the total amount of resources produced. So all lines start at zero and increase. This allows you to see stuff like:
- When did each player start producing gold?
- When did a player's coal mines run out (production slows/stops)
- At what point in the game did the player make specific weapon types?
- Which players decided to make each type of food? And at what time?

We think this is a pretty good solution, but as always we're open to suggestions.

SINGLEPLAYER (mostly from AIs building so the graphs are all pretty similar between players)

By hiding the two most common resources (stone and timber) the Y-Axis scale changes and allows you to see more detail:

Moving your mouse over a certain resource (in this case coal) causes it to become highlighted pink so it's easier to see:

MULTIPLAYER (once again AIs)

(my army size went up because I was spamming new units using a cheat)

Sorry for such a long post

Please let us know what you think of the new graphs! We like suggestions and ideas.
Cheers,
Lewin.

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 02:22**

I think it looks really great and seems easy to use/understand.

It would be a nice (but not that important) addition if we could compare the goods easily between players (It doesn't seem to be possible, judging by the screens), whithout switching between the players' graphs.
I'm thinking of a comparison graph for only one ware at a time between the players we selected to compare.
That would be the contrary of the slection we can see in your last screen, maybe in another tab (although it'd be quite strange to have 5 tabs since what you did with the 4 ones is great). You could select only one ware at a time, and as many players as you wish.

Just a random idea though, these graphs are already so cool :p

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 05:32**

@Shadaoe: We discussed goods comparisons with Lewin and most probably in the next version after this one we will allow to see 2nd players graphs half opaque when you hover mouse over that players name.

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 09:00**

I have a few questions and suggestions (<-- yes, this is true poetry):

GENERAL:
- I think the images next to 'Army' (two crossed swords), 'Houses' (two hammers) 'Economy' (two hammers as well), and 'Resources' (a pike) could be better. If you would show me the images and I would have to guess what kind of statistics they presented, I would probably have guessed other things. The crossed swords are okay but make me think of fighting statistics. I dislike the two hammers because all other images are building images or from storehouses/barracks. I suggest changing it to the marketplace building sign (the scale) for 'Economy' and changing it to the storehouse building sign for 'Buildings'. A pike for 'Resources' isn't good either, I suggest an image of a bag coal, a tree trunk, a piece of timber or corn.

SINGLE PLAYER
- Has a tab with 'Citizens', while that tab is not present in the multiplayer graphs. I know it's under 'Economy' together with 'Buildings', but in single player these are split up. Probably because 2x2 columns looks better than 2 and 1, but it's a little confusing.
- Currently it shows units from all different players, but this will be very confusing. I think statistics from players that share the same colour should be showed as one line (all together). So for TSK 20 it would be just red, yellow and black; not red, yellow and black and black and black and black and black and black. Also, graphs could give away the amount of units the enemy has left and it might influence one's gameplay.
- Does 'Citizens' include recruits?

MULTIPLAYER
- Has the 'Soldiers killed' been fixed? Currently 'Soldiers killed' = 'units killed'

The graphs are really interesting and will be a great addition. I'm looking forward to be studying other people's gameplay through the graphs.

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 09:15**

- I think the images next to 'Army' (two crossed swords), 'Houses' (two hammers) 'Economy' (two hammers as well), and 'Resources' (a pike) could be better. If you would show me the images and I would have to guess what kind of statistics they presented, I would probably have guessed other things. The crossed swords are okay but make me think of fighting statistics. I dislike the two hammers because all other images are building images or from storehouses/barracks. I suggest changing it to the marketplace building sign (the scale) for 'Economy' and changing it to the storehouse building sign for 'Buildings'. A pike for 'Resources' isn't good either, I suggest an image of a bag coal, a tree trunk, a piece of timber or corn.

I'll try some different icons to see how they look.

- Has a tab with 'Citizens', while that tab is not present in the multiplayer graphs. I know it's under 'Economy' together with 'Buildings', but in single player these are split up. Probably because 2x2 columns looks better than 2 and 1, but it's a little confusing.

Citizens are not very interesting for statistics so I don't think they deserve their own screen in MP. In SP the graphs are smaller so two stacked vertically doesn't look very good, and also 4 buttons looks nicer. I think SP and MP are quite separate ideas so people won't find it confusing. (I mean SP doesn't have the statistics page that MP does, the whole layout is different)

- Currently it shows units from all different players, but this will be very confusing. I think statistics from players that share the same colour should be showed as one line (all together). So for TSK 20 it would be just red, yellow and black; not red, yellow and black and black and black and black and black and black. Also, graphs could give away the amount of units the enemy has left and it might influence one's gameplay.

Yes I agree the graphs in SP are a bit of a problem. Merging same colours for AI players solves it, good idea. I don't think you can gain too much information from studying the graphs, hopefully it's not exploitable.

- Does 'Citizens' include recruits?

Yes but recruits do not last very long before being made into soldiers so I don't think it matters.

- Has the 'Soldiers killed' been fixed? Currently 'Soldiers killed' = 'units killed'

Yes that's why it's labeled "Soldiers Defeated" now, in the previous version was labeled "Units Defeated".

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 09:19**

Citizens are not very interesting for statistics so I don't think they deserve their own screen in MP. In SP the graphs are smaller so two stacked vertically doesn't look very good, and also 4 buttons looks nicer. I think SP and MP are quite separate ideas so people won't find it confusing. (I mean SP doesn't have the statistics page that MP does, the whole layout is different)

I agree they aren't that interesting. You're right, SP and MP are obviously quite different.

I don't think you can gain too much information from studying the graphs, hopefully it's not exploitable.

Army size is all you need to know, actually.

Yes that's why it's labeled "Soldiers Defeated" now, in the previous version was labeled "Units Defeated".

Ok, great.

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 10:10**

@Shadaoe: We discussed goods comparisons with Lewin and most probably in the next version after this one we will allow to see 2nd players graphs half opaque when you hover mouse over that players name.

Ok, thanks, so everything is perfect :p

PostPosted: **13 Aug 2012, 18:46**

hi!
WoW, stats of Ai player!
Grat!

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 02:58**

Ok I changed the icons as The Dark Lord suggested, what do you think of them now?

Singleplayer

Multiplayer

I prefer them like this

Anything else that needs improving? (I haven't got around to merging same colour AIs in singleplayer yet but I will)

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 07:39**

Anything else that needs improving? (I haven't got around to merging same colour AIs in singleplayer yet but I will)

Yes, I have a little sugestions

These are the statistics, after the battle. IMO, the background image should show the warriors. In my private collection I have something that you would like it. Can you replace the graphics and to show us?

download: http://www.sendspace.pl/file/13fd61b2f98266f9bb0b642 ( click to "pobierz" = download)

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 08:57**

The image from original KaM is nice enough, why change it? And also, every new image for Remake, would need to be under appropriate (open) license.

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 09:41**

The image from original KaM is nice enough, why change it? And also, every new image for Remake, would need to be under appropriate (open) license.

It's my foto, I'm Photographer.

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 09:46**

I like the existing image from KaM, I see no problems with it at all nor any reason to change it.

It's my foto, I'm Photographer.

It doesn't look much like a photograph to me. Where did you take it?

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 09:53**

I like the existing image from KaM, I see no problems with it at all nor any reason to change it.

It's my foto, I'm Photographer.
It doesn't look much like a photograph to me. Where did you take it?

Off-topic: I like the smell of sarcasm....

On-topic: I agree on Lewin, the orginal image is fine.
And congrats on the great job you did on the graphs

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2012, 09:58**

It doesn't look much like a photograph to me. Where did you take it?

Lewin, Lewin ... ehh. I used to picture a few filters to make it more fabulous. I'm not saying that the old image is bad. Just my little suggestion for change. You can always change it after all. Lewin is in charge

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