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Moorbach's Guard
Posts: 1044
Joined: 15 Apr 2012, 12:11
KaM Skill Level: Fair
Location: In the Market
Iron mines/ore VS ARMY composition
Well, I don't remember when I've opened topic but now would like to share this.
Yesterday we had a game on Desert mind on 60*1*1. I didn't count we will play that map, but why not, something different then the usual maps. I've played it only twice but of course 'you have an advantege because you are the creator of it'...etc. Actually we lost after autosave. But I got a strange feeleing. Actually a very strange one. Today when I was travelling to office I had time to thinking what happened in the game. I had to watched back the replay twice to understand what I got from this game. I tried to explain it for myseéf but needed a little time to understand why was speciel that game for me. Maybe the gameplay wasn't perfect but I noticed smething what woke me up.
This game gave me back something from the origina TSK games, from the single mode. What gave me is REGARDING POWER OF THE IRONTROOPS. I remember I felt always the irontroops are something speciel bonus for the game for the missions. Those were rarely and just some missions had it.(maybe I'm not correct-but really ~15years) I loved specielly mass pikes.
Anyway we have interesting army compositions after PT. Compositions! Yes. MASS scouts(actully 13
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
I think we can say that units are balanced well. The rock paper scissors is working well, of course some of you are missing xbow's shut and halt etc...but the units and their balance seems quite okay now. Knights beat swords, swords beat pikes and the pikes beat knights. Okay, then what the problem is really if there is a perfect unit balance? My idea is the problem is the very cheap and overproduceable ironore. I had some thoughts about the mapmakers who are blaming the whole Remake with infinity ironmines etc, but I'm one of them so I'm sure it not true, but there is a half point.
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
Actually we can say that the strongest army composition at the moment is Knights+swords+bowman. Usualy most of the players are plaing this in normal 60PTmode. Just set the village and after autotraining and focus on the battle field. It is natural and where the prolmem is? The problem starts when the irontroops are dominating the whole game. It is happening. 30swords+10knights+40bows one big fight and GG after 70mins. When playing daily then know your enemies much better day by day and make some pikes and lances also, but those never be like a main army if there aren't trolls
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Actually the irontroops are more OP then the leather troops. It's right. But there are too much irontroops. Of course because everybody focusing to traing the best army, but unfortunately the leather troops don't get enough chance to step into game. Okay the leather troops will be good in the late game. But as I remember the dream was the classical mixed army creation at PT. This is why the market was modified to be good at lategames.
I really enjoyed the game, seemed to me the players are surprised to see these army compositions. I was also but realized it only after the game. But why mass scouts and mass lances?? Well, 1st only two ironmines were there. It gives less iron ore then 3 or more. So if somebody really would like to abusing the iron troops then need to make very early mines(each one) or need to trade the leather wares to ironore or coal etc...
2nd the locs have only 150 iron ore/hill. It makes the player to let count what want to make exactly. 150 iron ore->150 ironbar->75xbow/pikes or 50swords. In time the swordman production slower if we count with 1-1 weapony and armory. (yes usually 1weaponry-2armory is the normal way for swordsman production)
So here it is a closed gap 2 mines and only 150ore. Almost doesn't matter what kind of irontroops will make because the players almost sure will abuse leather. The startng PT army will have different leather/iron troops rates.
Lots of usual maps have 3mines with around 3-400 ironore. It is actually enough for almost until the end of game. I know lots of players dislike the empty ironmines, dislike to working on the village under the battles to build new building set trades, but that one is also a skill. Less resources give more chance for the market also.
Many new maps are ther which has less starting resources in the storehouses and in the hills so there are players who like these game modes also.
Shortly because my keyboard's never seen as much charater...
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
There is picture from the 2; 3; and the 3/4++ version PT armies. Of course it is not relevant but somethings are evident and easy to see.
Less iron mines-->less iron troops--->more leather troops.
I think to this is somewhere between 2-3mines with 200-250iron ores.(it is only my opinion.)
At this moment how i see:
4++mines -->OP, mega ironusage, leather game has very low chance to make useful gameplay.
3mines with 300++ironore --> slightly better conditions but still irondominating.
3mines with low amount of ironore2-300 -->similar but presurrizethe early market
2mines -->would be good to see more results, in this case there are different starts also than knights+swords+bow
1mine --> no datas
![Mr Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
1mine-FAKE -->I had once on Paradise ISland when trade all leather stuffs to iron. No leather troops and useless iron troops...
0mine -->Maybe on OpenWorld with trading....
I would try out some of these:
-maps where the locations has only 1 iron mine with 300 iron ore.It would be interesting because the players always would have little groups of irontroops, but not in abused form. In this case the market usage would be a good option also when every skin would be trade to ironore and the tree trunks to coal....
-Changing the mining time of the ironmines. multiple with 1,333...I know it s a strange idea...
![Mr Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
So these strange thoughs came up to my mind after DesertMind game.
Anyway thanks for that game! For me that was the game of the year!
Oh and here are some pictures about the stats...Maybe someone has more monoton/balanced results where every player do the same army...
t
PS: SCOUTS and mass pikes nothing else! trolololo
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
PS:PS: its not about the maps nd balancing the maps/locs...It is all about abusing iron and about the army composition...and of course there are still lots of technical question, but no more type today
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)