Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

[WhiteWolf]

If we have an account system we could punish the ones leaving the game (maybe even lobby) and also (if a account/leveling system is made) we could make the lesser players not be able to play with the 'pro' players ?

like max level is 100. If a player 'hosts' a game than players who are 30 or more levels lower skilled than him cant join his lobby.

[dicsoupcan]

it is a nice idea, but it has nothing to do with gamespeed and the effect it has on people in lobbies. Also that will create new problems that have to be dealt with.

[WhiteWolf]

Damn it you're right..
Still if people weren't able to switch games so easily it wouldn't cause so much troubles..

What if mapmakers could set a standard game speed for their map.. that way it isn't decided in the lobby anymore.. i.e. map 'paradise island' can only be played on game speed 1.5.. Peace time could/would/should still be editable..

[Guest]

@Shadaoe
Well, it has also been the case that in the original TSK+TPR there has been no peace time. So do you think that should be dismissed, too?
The problem that I see is that you're trying to force your opinions onto other people. I dislike that strongly. Let them choose their game speed and their peace time (and their map). You can still play your own games. Look at the poll, 1/4 of all players like x1, there are enough partners to play with. Don't force your game speed onto us. The 'historic' thing is really pointless, see game speed, see marketplace, see maps, see scripts etc.

@sado1
Thanks for understanding my point. The truth is, that we usually don't have a problem. But in this thread, members of this forum see problems.

@thunder & pawel95
In both of your replies I see, that you have a larger problem with unfriendly players than with game speed. Sadly, there's nothing I can do about that (expect being friendly myself).

@thunder
Never heard of Crystalline Falls. What map is it?

@pawel95
No need to be angry with me. I'm not the one insulting you, so don't rage with me.

I said noone wants to play your speed because you said that yourself. You said, you wait from 3pm to 11pm for a game because you don't find partners. I don't open x1 lobbies, so I cannot speak out of experience. It's your statement I'm relying on. If you have a x1 lobby and people quit because of the speed - what's the problem? I imagine you also quit if you accidently join a x3 lobby, don't you? So why are you angry with lobby quitters?

Again, I'm not the one insulting you, so don't blame me for misbehaviour of others. Neither do I rehost all the time or have low fps. You're addressing the wrong person with this. I'm one of the persons that adopt to others rules. I even had a good match with a guy who tried pt 35 (at higher speed btw). There's fun in trying things.

@dicsoupcan
I can't follow. The point is, as long as speed was not implemented, people demanded that feature. That's why the developer finally implemented it. Same with peace time, this shield patch etc.
I like playing faster matches because it goes faster. The compromise that I prefer is that we leave speed slider and let people decide. I don't want to abolish speed change!
But I'm indeed ready for a compromise. The compromise of removing game speed slider would be to find the average value of actually wanted game speeds. Look at your poll topic. You find all game speeds, with a peak at x2. So abolishing speed slider and fixing x2 as the one and only game speed would be a compromise (and before you ask: I'm playing x2.5 too, so x2 is not my only game speed choice). I'm ready to accept that. Are you, too?

[Krom]

Thanks for sounding an opinion from the other side, Guest!
I find it sad that there are posts about one side of the problem (x1 proponents), blaming other side for bad gameplay, etc. It would be good to hear x2 defendants as well.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Thanks for sounding an opinion from the other side, Guest!
I find it sad that there are posts about one side of the problem (x1 proponents), blaming other side for bad gameplay, etc. It would be good to hear x2 defendants as well.

You might want to 'request' that with a reply on the FB message asking for voting (asking for some motivation).

[dicsoupcan]

Dear mr guest, i know you did not try to offend me, but if you have seen my earlier posts i said i prefer speed x1, but i can live with speed x2 (the compromise). But speeds beyond 2 are really too fast to play on so i suggested to reduce the gamespeed cap to max 2x. so i already did what you said.

[WhiteWolf]

To releave people of lobby leavers the game speed could be presented in the multiplayer screen ? So you can see the game speed before you join a lobby.

[Krom]

@WhiteWolf, of course, we just overlooked that we need to include that info in room description.

[The Dark Lord]

Previously, I thought it would be cool to have mutators and several other lobby options, but that opinion has taken a 180 degrees turn. I now believe it would be best to have as few options as possible, so there will be more unity. More options equals more different opinions equals more whining equals eternal waiting for players who agree with your settings.
So yes, it would be good to change max speed to x2. I would also propose to make it x1, x1.5 and x2 instead of adding x1.25 and x1.75. Although the difference would be much smaller and it would be more acceptible for people who want to play x1, x1.5 or x2, adding x1.25 and x1.75 still means two more options. There are now 25 different combinations to set game speed (PT and after PT speed, 5 options for each). If you only have x1, x1.5 and x2 this will be reduced to 9 different combinations. And since the differences are much smaller between these numbers than for example x1.5 and x3, I don't think something like x1.25 is really needed anyway (please don't kill me! ). The number of different lobby setting combinations should be kept as low as possible.

In reply to mr. guest: I don't think the poll is very representative right now, looking at the number of votes.

[Krom]

I've made a small tool to manually collect room stats and after a couple of tests I got these numbers from current rooms (judging by game time only #2 is after PT, others are below 60min):

  Code:

[RU] Cyber-battle.ru #1 #3 - x1,900656413145 [$808080][PL] [$00D4A8]Nizgard[$808080] #1 - x1,98197315659399 [$808080][PL] [$00D4A8]Nizgard[$808080] #2 - x1,53130204832249 [$808080][PL] [$00D4A8]Nizgard[$808080] #3 - x1,91143333095149 [$808080][PL] [$00D4A8]Nizgard[$808080] #4 - x2,00597629170844 Delta = 0:03:24

This is not representative at all by itself (maybe in the evening everyone plays x3), but looking at most of the games at the moment of a test being at x2 makes me think that the poll may be quite matching the situation.

[Bence791]

Imo saying it takes too long is just bs, they rather go play another game for more time actually? Just more rounds... Logic? None!

haha.. funny, not more rounds.. at speed x1 it takes 50-60 min before it gets interesting other games doesn't take that long

I meant other games, for example FPS, MMO or anything else, another game, not KaM. Basicly that they leave because it is "too long", and spend even more time playing another game. Is that actually logical? I guess not.

@Shadaoe
Well, it has also been the case that in the original TSK+TPR there has been no peace time. So do you think that should be dismissed, too?
The problem that I see is that you're trying to force your opinions onto other people. I dislike that strongly. Let them choose their game speed and their peace time (and their map). You can still play your own games. Look at the poll, 1/4 of all players like x1, there are enough partners to play with. Don't force your game speed onto us. The 'historic' thing is really pointless, see game speed, see marketplace, see maps, see scripts etc.

@sado1
Thanks for understanding my point. The truth is, that we usually don't have a problem. But in this thread, members of this forum see problems.

@thunder & pawel95
In both of your replies I see, that you have a larger problem with unfriendly players than with game speed. Sadly, there's nothing I can do about that (expect being friendly myself).

@thunder
Never heard of Crystalline Falls. What map is it?

@pawel95
No need to be angry with me. I'm not the one insulting you, so don't rage with me.

I said noone wants to play your speed because you said that yourself. You said, you wait from 3pm to 11pm for a game because you don't find partners. I don't open x1 lobbies, so I cannot speak out of experience. It's your statement I'm relying on. If you have a x1 lobby and people quit because of the speed - what's the problem? I imagine you also quit if you accidently join a x3 lobby, don't you? So why are you angry with lobby quitters?

Again, I'm not the one insulting you, so don't blame me for misbehaviour of others. Neither do I rehost all the time or have low fps. You're addressing the wrong person with this. I'm one of the persons that adopt to others rules. I even had a good match with a guy who tried pt 35 (at higher speed btw). There's fun in trying things.

@dicsoupcan
I can't follow. The point is, as long as speed was not implemented, people demanded that feature. That's why the developer finally implemented it. Same with peace time, this shield patch etc.
I like playing faster matches because it goes faster. The compromise that I prefer is that we leave speed slider and let people decide. I don't want to abolish speed change!
But I'm indeed ready for a compromise. The compromise of removing game speed slider would be to find the average value of actually wanted game speeds. Look at your poll topic. You find all game speeds, with a peak at x2. So abolishing speed slider and fixing x2 as the one and only game speed would be a compromise (and before you ask: I'm playing x2.5 too, so x2 is not my only game speed choice). I'm ready to accept that. Are you, too?

If you look at the situation, you can tell that we are forced to play your options. Otherwise we can just sit on TS and talk. Yes, 1/4 of votes are on x1, but how many are those votes in total? 111. I bet 95% of the votes on it were given by us. So then, should we only play with those 2-3 players? Why would we be restricted? If you don't want to be restricted to lower speed, don't want us to be restricted either. We won't play the shit and ridiculous settings, don't expect that. And, I guess the ones "arriving" to the game later should adapt to older players, not reversed. That's what you (and all randoms) should understand.

Peacetime and the speed slider are not the same. PT is a kind of good addition, preventing 1 militia victories. Speed slider is a thing that is actually pretty bad, hated by at least 70% of TS players. What kind of addition did it give? Nothing. Disadvancing people in skill. Who is that good for? I guess noone.

We have no problems with lobby quitters. But rather with degenerated immature randoms that start insulting you when you "aren't at their commands". And why do they do it? Because of the speed slider. So actually, we are at blaming the speed slider again. Because it made it like this.

And, why would it be "one and only" x2? Omg! One and only one game speed is x1. We already made compromises, it's the turn for you to make some as well.



P.S.: Yes, we also know Thanatos. We have also played with him, but what is the essence in 35 minutes pt and x2-x2,5 speed? Militia rush. Nothing more that the speed is good for.
P.S.S.: Why don't you register here? Finally someone having an opinion on things, and from "the other side".

[Guest]

@Bence791
So you think that your opinion should count more because you played the game earlier?
I say our opinion counts more because we play more games (which is easy, because you said yourself that you rarely find any more game). So who decided now?

And again, don't classify groups. It's just not the case that the teamspeak guys are the good ones and the "randoms" (wtf is a random?) are the flaming, insulting boons. I won't take blame for the cunts out there, stop directing me with that. Also, you can't imagine how often we "randoms" are insulted by ts players being campers or noobs or have no idea about that game. So this conflict is really two-headed with idiots on both sides. (I don't mean you personally because I don't think I have played with you)

You can still play x1. With all those x1 partners out there. It's really not my fault if you don't find a partner out of 30 possible x1 players. But don't aks for deletion of our match settings so that we are forced into your games. Up to now I didn't hear a convincing justification why you x1 players should have the right to judge about x3 game speed. Neither of you plays this speed, so just let it be. x3 is not your game! I'm under the impression that you are actually aware of that but can't arrange with the fact, that the facebook group has as much influence as the teamspeak group. So you feel betrayed because you think that it was you who made this remake so good. But that's not the case. Your game is x1. We don't want to abolish x1. We just enjoy faster games more.

Indeed I tried to understand your point and watched some shoutcasts. I see that your aim of the game is to play a perfect match with perfect organization in your town so you have the highest amount of soldiers. It's really impressive how far you've pushed this already. I understand that this suits perfectly to x1. So I think x1 should be kept for you.

On the other hand, your games are very focussed on soldiers and winning. At pt end everybody immediately pulls out as much troops as he can and starts focussing entirely on fighting. Again, that's your game. But not ours. We play the game much more for fun and enjoying KaM building. Imho it's not the aim of the game to have the maximum amount of troops at pt end. Original KaM was much about a good economy and the beauty of building a self sustaining city. Our multiplayer games preserve that feeling. So leave that to us.

There is another thing: judging from the shoutcasts we see that a match with you will be pretty boring. You're just way better than most of us. So I ask myself: why do you even want to play with us? We're little more than cannon fodder for you. Do you enjoy to destroy someone who focusses on building rather than fighting?

[The Dark Lord]

I must agree with guest at some points; I hate how TeamSpeak players tend to idolise themselves. I've once played undercover against a TeamSpeak player and he was a total jerk, leaving right after peacetime. I very much dislike the arrogance that comes from some people. I also dislike how some people seem to change their behaviour after their skills increase... Anyway, that's a different discussion.

Playing more games is just as bad of a reason as having played this game for a longer time when it comes to 'opinions that count'.

We play the game much more for fun and enjoying KaM building.

If you enjoy it so much, why speed it up so much that you almost skip it?

[pawel95]

I don´t want to repeat my arguments over and over, but I can give you a small feedback about what you mentioned here:

@pawel95
No need to be angry with me. I'm not the one insulting you, so don't rage with me.

I didn´t rage you. Its just a discussion with full of emotions

Also, you can't imagine how often we "randoms" are insulted by ts players being campers or noobs or have no idea about that game. So this conflict is really two-headed with idiots on both sides. (I don't mean you personally because I don't think I have played with you)

I can´t imagine really. I saw many games where ts guys let the password of to see "who´ll join". I can tell you, in 95% of times, the host of the ts players said: "Sorry but we have already one player that we know, can you leave (After he doesn´t react for 1 min:) !Player was kicked by the host! " However the storry continues often. The players come back and ask: "why?" The host says: "Sorry, we have already a player" Kicked player: " noob host, *insults insults insults*" *Host makes a password and kicks the guy, who started insulting.

Maybe it´s true that there were some "randoms"(Like you called them) who were instulted by some ts guys, but I can tell you thats not the normal way how it goes. All lobbies I saw up to here the "random" started to insult, because of kick/gamespeed !no compromise! ... Maybe there were one or two times when some guys from ts said some not nice words when they knew already that "leaver" for example, but I never saw sth like that. So you can´t bring that thing here, unless you have no pictures that shows it

(I don't mean you personally because I don't think I have played with you)

And we haven´t played with you propably also, maybe it would be better to make a real account on that page and not be "mister anonymous"

We play the game much more for fun and enjoying KaM building.

If you enjoy it so much, why speed it up so much that you almost skip it?

Good point, I could bring a comparision with the length/!speed of good sex, but I think I have not to