Color palette

[Freddy]

It looks totally different. Can't you achieve a similar color with this beloved shading of yours?

Again, I don't want to see the multiplayer colors change. They weren't a problem before and I don't see them as a problem now. Sure, there are colors that I'd like to be different, but there are many who would disagree on those changes, too. Again, why fix something if it isn't broken?

I want you to write how is it different. Saying it is totally different (which is an exaggeration) doesn't get your point across.

And again... it is broken. The neon green, the sharp blue and black - all look bad, nobody likes to use colors like that (look at websites, other games), they are just too extreme, nothing natural has these colors.

[Shadaoe]

The neon green, the sharp blue and black - all look bad, nobody likes to use colors like that (look at websites, other games), they are just too extreme, nothing natural has these colors.

I like using the sharp blue. As odd as it may sound your opinion on colors isn't universal.

[Freddy]

The neon green, the sharp blue and black - all look bad, nobody likes to use colors like that (look at websites, other games), they are just too extreme, nothing natural has these colors.

I like using the sharp blue. As odd as it may sound your opinion on colors isn't universal.

I know, I kinda give up anyway with all this. But generally, in design etc. colors like these are just plain bad practice.

[Krom]

@Freddy: As a graphics designer, I agree with you. Plain "open" colors are discouraged in design. However here we are dealing with ingame units/flags colors as well - which are fine to be "sharp".

[Freddy]

@Freddy: As a graphics designer, I agree with you. Plain "open" colors are discouraged in design. However here we are dealing with ingame units/flags colors as well - which are fine to be "sharp".

Ok. Still, at least for me, it kills the natural feel of KaM.

[Ben]

Well for me, it doesn't

If I had to put in words about who the dark red looks "different", I'd say that it looks more purple and less red than it did before.

[Freddy]

Well for me, it doesn't

If I had to put in words about who the dark red looks "different", I'd say that it looks more purple and less red than it did before.

Well, it's pure red. It's about 10% darker, nothing else, no purple. What you might be feeling is a percieved change in hue when lightness changes although the hue stays the same. Anyway, I didn't even notice I made the dark red darker, It probably got shifted because the new normal red is a bit darker a more saturated. The old one would probably be fine too.

[Ben]

What does it look like when it's not 10% darker?

I've given you a lot of heat because my favorite colors are the ones that have "changed" the most. I want to take a moment to say that I do think that the blue colors look much, much nicer. In fact, it's almost worth losing my favorite colors to see these new blues in game. Also, the new "olive green" is absolutely gorgeous. I hated that color before.

My opinions are; though:

Dark green is much too dark
Dark red is much too dark
Leave black as jet black -- no shade. 100% black looks like a void-- where nothing but evil resides. It suits well I think
Pink doesn't look pink enough. If I want pink, I want PINK. Not this skimpy lame-sauce bright "almost white" pink (I feel the same way about pink in current game).
Yellow looks too "mustard" yellow. Maybe brighten it just a little bit? idk.

Again, these are my opinions.

[Freddy]

What does it look like when it's not 10% darker?

I've given you a lot of heat because my favorite colors are the ones that have "changed" the most. I want to take a moment to say that I do think that the blue colors look much, much nicer. In fact, it's almost worth losing my favorite colors to see these new blues in game. Also, the new "olive green" is absolutely gorgeous. I hated that color before.

My opinions are; though:

Dark green is much too dark
Dark red is much too dark
Leave black as jet black -- no shade. 100% black looks like a void-- where nothing but evil resides. It suits well I think
Pink doesn't look pink enough. If I want pink, I want PINK. Not this skimpy lame-sauce bright "almost white" pink (I feel the same way about pink in current game).
Yellow looks too "mustard" yellow. Maybe brighten it just a little bit? idk.

Again, these are my opinions.

When it's not 10% darker, it is the original or I don't know what you mean.

Dark green is dark so it doesn't get too much close to the teal color, when I said earlier, that it should be changed, I take that back. Maybe a slight change.
The red I think could be reverted, no conflict there.
The black is one of the things that bugged me the most, would like other people to state their opinions.
The pink could use a bump, but again, the bland color much better fits the medieval feel - in those times, they weren't able to make dyes that bright, they used natural pigments.
Regarding the yellow, that was the point, pure yellow tends to have a slight greenish hue. Although I might have overdid it with the hue.

I tried a revised version, what I would like to think of as a compromise:

[Lewin]

The problem with the old black was that there was as black as it is possible to be, meaning the game is unable to darken it to produce a gradient to make the units look real and 3D. Take a look at a red serf:


The game takes the brightest red colour and then darkens it to produce the parts that are in shadow. This gives the serf a nice 3D look (more noticeable when it's not zoomed this much). The trouble with the old black was that there is no way to darken it:


So there is no depth to the sprite and it no longer looks 3D. The black parts just look like empty holes in the sprite. Freddy attempted to change that by lightening it slightly:


Now the game is able to produce more than one shade of "black", so there is 3D depth again.

I agree that "pure black" is nice, but the sprite does look better with depth. Hopefully this clears up any confusion about why it was changed.

IMO the fact that it's not pure black now is not noticeable unless you compare them side by side. To me the horse/swordsman in Freddy's image looks black, it does not look like dark grey. Seeing Freddy's colours on their own is confusing because the game generates several colours from the "base colour". So you should only look at the screenshots when comparing them.

For what my opinion is worth, I prefer the "golden yellow" in Freddy's first palette (here) over the "green yellow" in his second palette (here).

[Freddy]

@Lewin Thank you for the nice graphical explanation Although I am curious why the softer black still has a much lower percieved variation than the red for example. Is it because lightness changess on greyscale ale less noticable?

Regarding the yellow... yes, I like the golden one too

[Lewin]

@Lewin Thank you for the nice graphical explanation Although I am curious why the softer black still has a much lower percieved variation than the red for example. Is it because lightness changess on greyscale ale less noticable?

Good question. It's not actually generating a paletted gradient (we're using RGB not palettes like KaM did), it just blends the team colour onto the sprite with a different alpha for different intensity (maximum alpha for brightest parts, minimum for darkest parts). The sprite that it is blending onto is black or white (depending on the brightness at that pixel). The end result is that black doesn't change because it is being blended into itself. When you blend a colour like red or white with black it produces a different colour. But when you blend black with black it is still black The only time that black changes is for the brightest colours (which are used on the flags, not units themselves). In that case the black team colour is being blended with white which gives grey.

[Freddy]

@Lewin Thank you for the nice graphical explanation Although I am curious why the softer black still has a much lower percieved variation than the red for example. Is it because lightness changess on greyscale ale less noticable?

Good question. It's not actually generating a paletted gradient (we're using RGB not palettes like KaM did), it just blends the team colour onto the sprite with a different alpha for different intensity (maximum alpha for brightest parts, minimum for darkest parts). The sprite that it is blending onto is black or white (depending on the brightness at that pixel). The end result is that black doesn't change because it is being blended into itself. When you blend a colour like red or white with black it produces a different colour. But when you blend black with black it is still black The only time that black changes is for the brightest colours (which are used on the flags, not units themselves). In that case the black team colour is being blended with white which gives grey.

Oh, now I see what is going on. Took me a minute to actually understand It is definitely a system that doesn't do well with grayscale base colors.

Did you lighten the dark green, like I wrote several posts back? Because I don't agree with that suggestion of mine anymore

[Ben]

I already knew about how shading makes things look 3D. I used to do a little pixel art myself back in the day.

Anyway, your second palette looks really good (I'm using g my phone at the moment; maybe that's one reason xD). I still think that dark green is too dark, but maybe it's good to keep it different from light green. I disagree with Lewin on yellow. I like the new one more :p the pink actually looks pink! Yay!

Finally, will we still be able to use pure black in SP?

EDIT: after comparing the two palates, there seems to be less difference than I thought. Like guess my phones display is more different than I originally suspected xp

[pawel95]

If you really change my light green color from the multiplayer, that is known since tsk 12 or sth. like that, just because you have some problems, how colors in computergames look like ( from 1999) , I will burn your barracks down, will eat all your food in your town and kill every single wolf in your region. I am on holidays now and I don't want to discuss anything or hear any senseless arguments about COLORS, man wake up, changing colors to more natural ones??!