Map Database  •  FAQ  •  RSS  •  Login

English TPR briefings

<<

Danjb

Sword Fighter

Posts: 288

Joined: 14 May 2007, 22:00

Post 07 Nov 2011, 13:07

Absolutely!
I'm happy to help and I'm always thrilled to see how well the Remake is going :)

I think the descriptions are nearly perfect, but hearing them spoken just highlights a few points like the ones I mentioned above. I'll have another read through each of them and write what I think sounds best:
  Code:
Verily, our situation is grave. The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they doth be. Thou must perforce put a stop to this! Make haste to defend thy subjects and then indeed shall these dastardly defectors pay for what they have done![/quote] * "defenseless" -> "defenceless" - not important for the voice but important for the text version! * "do be" -> "doth be" [code]Thou hast done well, but many a commoner are still imprisoned under the clutches of the rebels. Perchance thou canst soon concentrate thine efforts on freeing the remaining villages. Our spies report that one last wave of rebels is approaching thy current position from the north. Push them back to that from whence they came![/quote] * Changed the ending as little as possible to make it grammatically correct [code]Victory is ours! Thou shalt use this small window of time to build thy torched towns anew. Squander no time, as thou soon needs to sway thy priority into liberating the occupied settlements nigh to the north. Let not the commoners of these settlements come to harm. They are citizens of thine own, being coerced to follow the renegade rule by the flagitious soldiers stationed there. Thou must needs defeat these soldiers, and these soldiers only, to free thy subjects.[/quote] * "the torched towns" -> "thy torched towns" - you own them, right? [code]Our spies hath sighted marching enemy troops in the settlements nigh. This doth mean that thine enemy hath indeed captured even these settlements and turned them into military encampments. Thou must needs rid these rebellious soldiers from the land that is rightfully thine and destroy any military buildings they have erected. And forget not, thou shouldst not let any commoners come in harms way.[/quote] * "Thy spies" -> "Our spies" - I think generally that's how they are referred to in TSK? * "nigh by" -> "nigh" - I think this is correct, and sounds a bit better in my opinion * "rightfully thy" -> "rightfully thine" - this is correct [code]Thy last victory hath stirred up the rebels and even now a huge army is marching toward a local village. Thou shalt help these defenceless commoners and not let the town fall. Repel thine enemy![/quote] * "defenseless" -> "defenceless" again [code]Thy previous attacks hath indeed driven back the scoundrels. Howsoever, thy scouts report that the rebels hath erected new encampments overnight that pose a great threat to the safety of thy commoners. Thou shalt remove these encampments from the surroundings but utterly. Perchance thou canst also use this opportunity to secure new iron mines; thy last battles hath emptied our coffers of that which thou art in dire need.[/quote] * Made the last sentence a continuation of the previous with a semi-colon, since they seem linked * "direly in need of" -> "in dire need" - incorrect to end the sentence on a preposition [code]Soon thou shalt once again turn thine attention into hunting down further encampments of ye scoundrels. More urgent matters currently press upon thee, as thy lands in the south have been overrun. Thou shalt eradicate these settlements, using the iron ore that thy stalwart troops hath secured in our last battle to strengthen thine army. Thine iron supplies art limited, so use them wisely.[/quote] * I don't really like "ye scoundrels" as it's not clear who is being referred to, but I don't know how to improve it, except by completely changing it, i.e. "thine enemy" [code]Thou must make haste! During thy last attack, thou hast tasked nigh all thy soldiers to support thy cause, leaving thy main bastion undefended. Seditious commoners of thine hath dispatched this information to the wicked renegades and they even now prepareth an attack against thee! Thou must return with all thy speed if thou art to arrive before the scoundrels hath breached thy fortress.[/quote] * "commoners of thy" -> "commoners of thine" - this is correct * "Thou needs to return" -> "Thou must return" - sounds better I think * "in the hopes of making it back" -> "if thou art to arrive before" - a bit more KaM-style * "managed to breach" -> "breached" - snappier [code]Verily, the ambush hath delayed thy troops and the rebels hath indeed succeeded in capturing thy fortress. Let not this discourage thou in thy noble quest! Perchance thou canst use this opportunity to weaken the scoundrel rule by recapturing thy castle. Thou wilt be hugely outnumbered and thine adversaries defences shalt be highly superior, but thou hast knowledge of the terrain that can be used to thine advantage. Attack not the main gate, but search for alternate routes.[/quote] * "managed to capture" -> "succeeded in capturing" - sounds better in my opinion * "discourage thy noble quest" -> "discourage thou in thy noble quest" - it is you, not the quest, that should be discouraged * Not sure "the scoundrel rule" makes sense but I don't know what to do about it... * "defenses" -> "defences" * "thy knowledge" -> "knowledge" - too many "though"s and "thy"s in that sentence :p * "to thine advantage" -> "that can be used to thine advantage" - seems to make more sense * "throughout the main gate" -> "the main gate" - seems to make more sense [code]In thy glorious reconquest of thy castle, thou hast managed to capture some of the rebels. Through extortion, we hath managed to retrieve information vital to thy quest. The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, beneath an underground pass leading through the steep mountains. Thou must needs find this pass, and defeat any rebels guarding it.[/quote] * Not sure what "through extortion" means exactly, but I haven't changed anything :) * Just a thought, is their base "beneath" the underground pass, or through it?
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 08 Nov 2011, 01:16

Thanks for your suggestions :)
They look pretty good. Well done spotting the defenSe mistakes, I'm quite hopeless on things like that :P
* "do be" -> "doth be"
As Litude pointed out above, this is not correct because "doth" means "does" which does not make grammatical sense.
* Not sure what "through extortion" means exactly, but I haven't changed anything :)
I thought exportation basically means torture, but it means it was unlawful and intending to obtain something from the person. I've heard it in the news sometimes.
Actually after looking in the Oxford Dictionary I found that Extort means:
Obtain by force, threats or other unfair means
It also says the origin is from early 16th century Middle English, so I guess it's fairly appropriate. I think KaM is meant to be based a bit earlier than the 16th century, but it really doesn't matter because it's not like all of the words used are exactly what they would have spoken in those days, it just adds an interesting tone to the briefings and makes them feel more authentic.
<<

Danjb

Sword Fighter

Posts: 288

Joined: 14 May 2007, 22:00

Post 08 Nov 2011, 08:17

Thanks for your suggestions :)
No problem!
As Litude pointed out above, this is not correct because "doth" means "does" which does not make grammatical sense.
Oh, sorry, I must have missed that. Can you think of an alternative or do you think "do be" is ok? I just think it sounds a bit silly when you say those words together.
Actually after looking in the Oxford Dictionary I found that Extort means:
Obtain by force, threats or other unfair means
It also says the origin is from early 16th century Middle English, so I guess it's fairly appropriate. I think KaM is meant to be based a bit earlier than the 16th century, but it really doesn't matter because it's not like all of the words used are exactly what they would have spoken in those days, it just adds an interesting tone to the briefings and makes them feel more authentic.
Yeah, that sounds good to me :)
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 08 Nov 2011, 12:34

I agree that "do be" sounds wrong. Maybe just "are"? Can you think of something better?
<<

Danjb

Sword Fighter

Posts: 288

Joined: 14 May 2007, 22:00

Post 08 Nov 2011, 14:34

Not really :p
Here are some thoughts:
  Code:
The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they are.[/quote] [code]The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they art.[/quote] [code]The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering the defenceless people[/quote] [code]The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them in the defencelessness.[/quote] [code]The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them, even as they stand defenceless.[/quote] [code]The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them.[/quote]
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 09 Nov 2011, 00:11

I don't think it is correct to use "art" in this case. I always thought "art" was only used after "thou" (same as "is" is only used after he/she/it in English, and other times you use "are")

Here's another suggestion:
  Code:
The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering the defenceless villagers[/quote] Your "even as they stand defenceless" one sounds okay too.
<<

Litude

User avatar

King Karolus

Posts: 1233

Joined: 01 May 2006, 22:00

Website: http://www.knightsandmerchants.net

Location: Finland

Post 09 Nov 2011, 19:00

Thank you Danjb once again, it's great to get such thorough feedback!
  Code:
Verily, our situation is grave. The renegades are oppressing the last of the commoners that still abide loyal to thy king, shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they doth be. Thou must perforce put a stop to this! Make haste to defend thy subjects and then indeed shall these dastardly defectors pay for what they have done![/quote] * "defenseless" -> "defenceless" - not important for the voice but important for the text version![/quote] I was under the impression that defence can be written both with a C and an S. Curiously the original TSK scripts actually use both "defense" and "defence" so it's not much help. I would guess that "defence" is the original form though since American English makes a habit of replacing the letter C with S whenever possible so in that regard "defence" would be better (since we are striving for an older language). As for the other gripe with that message, how about "shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they stand"? Then again it kind of sounds like they would be making a stand which doesn't quite fit. [quote="Danjb"][code]Thou hast done well, but many a commoner are still imprisoned under the clutches of the rebels. Perchance thou canst soon concentrate thine efforts on freeing the remaining villages. Our spies report that one last wave of rebels is approaching thy current position from the north. Push them back to that from whence they came![/quote] * Changed the ending as little as possible to make it grammatically correct[/quote] Sounds great! [quote="Danjb"][code]Victory is ours! Thou shalt use this small window of time to build thy torched towns anew. Squander no time, as thou soon needs to sway thy priority into liberating the occupied settlements nigh to the north. Let not the commoners of these settlements come to harm. They are citizens of thine own, being coerced to follow the renegade rule by the flagitious soldiers stationed there. Thou must needs defeat these soldiers, and these soldiers only, to free thy subjects.[/quote] * "the torched towns" -> "thy torched towns" - you own them, right?[/quote] It does sound better but there's kind of the problem here that the town is not really "thy" as in your and your alone since you aren't the king but the captain of the palace guard (IIRC). According to [url=http://ecclesia.org/truth/thou.html]this[/url] page the correct form here would be your. Then again there probably exist tons of problems like this in the TSK scripts as well so I guess it doesn't really matter. [quote="Danjb"][code]Our spies hath sighted marching enemy troops in the settlements nigh. This doth mean that thine enemy hath indeed captured even these settlements and turned them into military encampments. Thou must needs rid these rebellious soldiers from the land that is rightfully thine and destroy any military buildings they have erected. And forget not, thou shouldst not let any commoners come in harms way.[/quote] * "Thy spies" -> "Our spies" - I think generally that's how they are referred to in TSK? * "nigh by" -> "nigh" - I think this is correct, and sounds a bit better in my opinion * "rightfully thy" -> "rightfully thine" - this is correct[/quote] Agree with the first point. A bit surprised by the second one since I'm assuming nigh is interchangeable with close. Wouldn't you say "close by" instead of just "close" in that sentence? Or is this really not needed when using the word "nigh"? Also why is the last one thine? Because of the succeeded word "and"? I'm always a bit lost in these special cases. [quote="Danjb"][code]Thy previous attacks hath indeed driven back the scoundrels. Howsoever, thy scouts report that the rebels hath erected new encampments overnight that pose a great threat to the safety of thy commoners. Thou shalt remove these encampments from the surroundings but utterly. Perchance thou canst also use this opportunity to secure new iron mines; thy last battles hath emptied our coffers of that which thou art in dire need.[/quote] * Made the last sentence a continuation of the previous with a semi-colon, since they seem linked * "direly in need of" -> "in dire need" - incorrect to end the sentence on a preposition[/quote] Nice changes, especially that last one makes the sentence flow better. [quote="Danjb"][code]Soon thou shalt once again turn thine attention into hunting down further encampments of ye scoundrels. More urgent matters currently press upon thee, as thy lands in the south have been overrun. Thou shalt eradicate these settlements, using the iron ore that thy stalwart troops hath secured in our last battle to strengthen thine army. Thine iron supplies art limited, so use them wisely.[/quote] * I don't really like "ye scoundrels" as it's not clear who is being referred to, but I don't know how to improve it, except by completely changing it, i.e. "thine enemy"[/quote] Well since there's just one enemy in the campaign, the rebels, I don't quite agree with it being all that unclear. I guess "ye" could be changed to "the" but I'm not sure that would really make any difference? [quote="Danjb"][code]Thou must make haste! During thy last attack, thou hast tasked nigh all thy soldiers to support thy cause, leaving thy main bastion undefended. Seditious commoners of thine hath dispatched this information to the wicked renegades and they even now prepareth an attack against thee! Thou must return with all thy speed if thou art to arrive before the scoundrels hath breached thy fortress.[/quote] * "commoners of thy" -> "commoners of thine" - this is correct * "Thou needs to return" -> "Thou must return" - sounds better I think * "in the hopes of making it back" -> "if thou art to arrive before" - a bit more KaM-style * "managed to breach" -> "breached" - snappier[/quote] Once again I'm wondering which word defines whether it should be "thy" or "thine" in your first point. Just trying to learn how it's supposed to be, not trying to say you're wrong. :wink: Totally like all the changes though. :) [quote="Danjb"][code]Verily, the ambush hath delayed thy troops and the rebels hath indeed succeeded in capturing thy fortress. Let not this discourage thou in thy noble quest! Perchance thou canst use this opportunity to weaken the scoundrel rule by recapturing thy castle. Thou wilt be hugely outnumbered and thine adversaries defences shalt be highly superior, but thou hast knowledge of the terrain that can be used to thine advantage. Attack not the main gate, but search for alternate routes.[/quote] * "managed to capture" -> "succeeded in capturing" - sounds better in my opinion * "discourage thy noble quest" -> "discourage thou in thy noble quest" - it is you, not the quest, that should be discouraged * Not sure "the scoundrel rule" makes sense but I don't know what to do about it... * "defenses" -> "defences" * "thy knowledge" -> "knowledge" - too many "though"s and "thy"s in that sentence :p * "to thine advantage" -> "that can be used to thine advantage" - seems to make more sense * "throughout the main gate" -> "the main gate" - seems to make more sense[/quote] Great stuff, especially that quest discouraging thing, nice catch indeed! :D Scoundrel rule probably doesn't make sense per se, but you have to remember that the briefer will look down on the rebels and in such a case I think you could use that expression. As for the last point, "throughout" has an obsolete/archaic meaning of going right through something which is what I was aiming for (as can be read [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/throughout]here[/url]). Though I'm not sure if I used it in the right context. [quote="Danjb"][code]In thy glorious reconquest of thy castle, thou hast managed to capture some of the rebels. Through extortion, we hath managed to retrieve information vital to thy quest. The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, beneath an underground pass leading through the steep mountains. Thou must needs find this pass, and defeat any rebels guarding it.[/quote] * Not sure what "through extortion" means exactly, but I haven't changed anything :) * Just a thought, is their base "beneath" the underground pass, or through it?[/quote] You're right, "beneath" might not be the right word here. As for the voice acting, since I'm not a native speaker you probably shouldn't take anything I say too seriously. I think you nailed the voice quite well since it sounds like Queens English to me. (But as I said, I probably wouldn't be able to make out the difference between Australian and British English even if two persons were standing right in front of me speaking in each accent respectively :D) And I also have to say that I think you have the right tone for the first mission since the voice has this "concerned"/deep kind of vibe which is exactly what it would need in that situation. Take 6 on mission 2 on the other hand sounds somewhat lighter which is exactly what the briefer/adviser should sound like after a small victory. Agree with Danjb that 7 for mission 1 and 6 for mission 2 are the best takes.
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 09 Nov 2011, 23:22

Yeah "defense" is the American spelling, so I think you should use "defence" as that's more old fashioned. (and it's the only correct spelling in UK/Australia/Canada AFAIK)
A bit surprised by the second one since I'm assuming nigh is interchangeable with close. Wouldn't you say "close by" instead of just "close" in that sentence? Or is this really not needed when using the word "nigh"?
I always assumed "nigh" was similar to "near", but "nigh by" sounds completely wrong to me in this case. The way Danjb wrote it with just "nigh" is good.

I don't think the archaic meaning of "throughout" works here as I think very few people would be aware of this meaning. (I've never heard of it and presumably Danjb hasn't either or he wouldn't have changed it)

Thanks for the voice feedback. I'll try to get more into the acting and think about how the narrator would be feeling at this point of the campaign.
Please let me know when you think any of the briefings are final enough to be read and I'll have another go at it. Once I've got the voice right it shouldn't take long to do it, I could probably do the whole campaign in 3 hours (and then take feedback on ones that need to be redone)
Cheers,
Lewin.
<<

Danjb

Sword Fighter

Posts: 288

Joined: 14 May 2007, 22:00

Post 10 Nov 2011, 00:39

Thank you Danjb once again, it's great to get such thorough feedback!
Thank YOU, Litube, for all your hard work. It is an honour to help :D
I was under the impression that defence can be written both with a C and an S. Curiously the original TSK scripts actually use both "defense" and "defence" so it's not much help. I would guess that "defence" is the original form though since American English makes a habit of replacing the letter C with S whenever possible so in that regard "defence" would be better (since we are striving for an older language).
Yup, "defense" is American. Interesting that original KAM used both...
As for the other gripe with that message, how about "shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they stand"? Then again it kind of sounds like they would be making a stand which doesn't quite fit.
Yeah, it sounds good, but I see what you mean about it sounding like they're making a stand. I think Lewin's suggestion might be the best one so far.
It does sound better but there's kind of the problem here that the town is not really "thy" as in your and your alone since you aren't the king but the captain of the palace guard (IIRC). According to this page the correct form here would be your. Then again there probably exist tons of problems like this in the TSK scripts as well so I guess it doesn't really matter.
Good point! Personally I've always thought of myself as kind of being "in charge" when playing, so I kind of consider all the towns my own, but I suppose technically this is not correct. I think it's a small enough inconsistency that it probably doesn't matter, but I guess "the" and "your" would also be fine here, so it makes sense to go with one that is correct.
Agree with the first point. A bit surprised by the second one since I'm assuming nigh is interchangeable with close. Wouldn't you say "close by" instead of just "close" in that sentence? Or is this really not needed when using the word "nigh"?
Also why is the last one thine? Because of the succeeded word "and"? I'm always a bit lost in these special cases.
You would say "close by", yes, but I'm not sure "nigh" and "close" are completely interchangeable. Of course I could be wrong here as I'm not particularly fluent in Ye Olde English but I think it sounds correct as "nigh".

As for "thy" and "thine": I belive "thy" is basically "your", whereas "thine" is "yours".
Well since there's just one enemy in the campaign, the rebels, I don't quite agree with it being all that unclear. I guess "ye" could be changed to "the" but I'm not sure that would really make any difference?
I guess it's not all that unclear; I think "ye" is ok :)
Scoundrel rule probably doesn't make sense per se, but you have to remember that the briefer will look down on the rebels and in such a case I think you could use that expression.
I've just never heard a combination of words quite like that before; it's as if "scoundrel" is being used like an adjective to describe the rule, but "scoundrel" is a noun... Again, I'm not sure though.
As for the last point, "throughout" has an obsolete/archaic meaning of going right through something which is what I was aiming for (as can be read here). Though I'm not sure if I used it in the right context.
It does have an archaic feel to it, and I think you are correct, but I fear it might be a little too obscure!
You're right, "beneath" might not be the right word here.
Perhaps "The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."?
it shouldn't take long to do it, I could probably do the whole campaign in 3 hours
3 hours is a long time! Big respect Lewin :)

---------

Also, I've just had an idea, I'll get a second opinion on all of these descriptions (my mum did a degree in English) and I'll post the results later :P
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 10 Nov 2011, 00:52

Yup, "defense" is American. Interesting that original KAM used both...
The English release of KaM is actually a US edition so I'm guessing that's why. There are other cases where they use US spelling. "Defense" is used in the TSK briefings too.
As for "thy" and "thine": I belive "thy" is basically "your", whereas "thine" is "yours".
I think you might be right but that's NOT how it is used in KaM. e.g. ("Control thine anger", "thou hast the glorious chance to
increase thine army", "Thine aim shall now be the capture of Moorbach", "These good commoners shall supply thine army", "Thou wilt achieve victory by thine usage of clever tactics", "At last thine efforts bear fruit!")

They seem to use it completely interchangeably. It's not to do with whether the noun is plural, e.g. "To thy weapons!". So I think we should just use which ever fits best unless someone can figure out the pattern of when it is used in the TSK briefings.
I've just never heard a combination of words quite like that before; it's as if "scoundrel" is being used like an adjective to describe the rule, but "scoundrel" is a noun... Again, I'm not sure though.
Yeah I think you're right, it should be "the scoundrel's rule" as otherwise you are using a noun as an adjective.
Perhaps "The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."?
I'm almost certain "hath" only means "has" not "have". In the the original briefings they use "have" for "have" and "hath" for "has". (e.g. "The traitor's henchmen have succeeded in breaching our defenses.", "Thy victory hath given us hope.")
All of this makes a lot more sense when you've studied conjugation in another language like German (as I have) because English only really has two conjugates for each verb. (have/has, are/is, do/does)
3 hours is a long time! Big respect Lewin :)
LOL not compared to the amount of time I've put into the Remake and my mission editor :P
<<

Litude

User avatar

King Karolus

Posts: 1233

Joined: 01 May 2006, 22:00

Website: http://www.knightsandmerchants.net

Location: Finland

Post 10 Nov 2011, 20:52

As for the other gripe with that message, how about "shamelessly butchering them, defenceless as they stand"? Then again it kind of sounds like they would be making a stand which doesn't quite fit.
Yeah, it sounds good, but I see what you mean about it sounding like they're making a stand. I think Lewin's suggestion might be the best one so far.
I'll use Lewin's suggestion.
Good point! Personally I've always thought of myself as kind of being "in charge" when playing, so I kind of consider all the towns my own, but I suppose technically this is not correct. I think it's a small enough inconsistency that it probably doesn't matter, but I guess "the" and "your" would also be fine here, so it makes sense to go with one that is correct.
I just did a quick check of the original TSK scripts and they don't seem to make a distinction between "thy" and "yours", so "thy" it is.
You would say "close by", yes, but I'm not sure "nigh" and "close" are completely interchangeable. Of course I could be wrong here as I'm not particularly fluent in Ye Olde English but I think it sounds correct as "nigh".
Alright, I'll change it to "nigh".
As for "thy" and "thine": I belive "thy" is basically "your", whereas "thine" is "yours".
That makes sense.
I've just never heard a combination of words quite like that before; it's as if "scoundrel" is being used like an adjective to describe the rule, but "scoundrel" is a noun... Again, I'm not sure though.
You're right, "scoundrelly rule" would probably work better.
As for the last point, "throughout" has an obsolete/archaic meaning of going right through something which is what I was aiming for (as can be read here). Though I'm not sure if I used it in the right context.
It does have an archaic feel to it, and I think you are correct, but I fear it might be a little too obscure!
Guess I'll remove it then.
Perhaps "The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."?
Great, I'll use that!

The English release of KaM is actually a US edition so I'm guessing that's why. There are other cases where they use US spelling. "Defense" is used in the TSK briefings too.
You're probably right. I don't know, should we use British spelling whenever possible?
I think you might be right but that's NOT how it is used in KaM. e.g. ("Control thine anger", "thou hast the glorious chance to
increase thine army", "Thine aim shall now be the capture of Moorbach", "These good commoners shall supply thine army", "Thou wilt achieve victory by thine usage of clever tactics", "At last thine efforts bear fruit!")

They seem to use it completely interchangeably. It's not to do with whether the noun is plural, e.g. "To thy weapons!". So I think we should just use which ever fits best unless someone can figure out the pattern of when it is used in the TSK briefings.
Historically, thy and thine were completely interchangeable but in recreated old language thine is used when the next words starts with a vowel and thy in other cases. The expressions "rightfully thine" and "commoners of thine" are special cases where I guess the your/yours rule applies.
Perhaps "The renegades hath a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."?
I'm almost certain "hath" only means "has" not "have". In the the original briefings they use "have" for "have" and "hath" for "has". (e.g. "The traitor's henchmen have succeeded in breaching our defenses.", "Thy victory hath given us hope.")
All of this makes a lot more sense when you've studied conjugation in another language like German (as I have) because English only really has two conjugates for each verb. (have/has, are/is, do/does)
Actually it's not as simple as "hath = has" and "have = have". There's also the form "hast". Since declension is almost non-existant in modern English, I guess it's a bit hard to explain (you should try Finnish, most words can be inflected in over ten different ways :D) I think Lewin is correct in this case (but there are a bunch of similar errors made by me in the other messages).
I think it goes like this (modern versions in parentheses):
  Code:
I            have (have) thou (you)   hast (have) he/she/it    hath (has) we           have (have) ye (you)     have (have) they         have (have) [/quote] [quote="Lewin"][quote="Danjb"]3 hours is a long time! Big respect Lewin :)[/quote] LOL not compared to the amount of time I've put into the Remake and my mission editor :P[/quote] Regardless, thank you so much for taking the time to do this!
<<

Lewin

User avatar

KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 11 Nov 2011, 03:02

You're right, "scoundrelly rule" would probably work better.
Scoundrelly doesn't sound good to me... I know it is a word but I've never heard it used and I don't like the way it sounds. I think "scoundrel's" would be fine, but if Danjb says "scoundrelly" is ok then take his word over mine, as he's from the right country after all :P
You're probably right. I don't know, should we use British spelling whenever possible?
I would prefer that, damn Americans messing with our good English :P
But if we did that we'd have to change corn to wheat and lots of other things that I don't think should change, so I vote we just use British English in the briefings as that are meant to be old English which was certainly not influenced by the Americans :P
Historically, thy and thine were completely interchangeable but in recreated old language thine is used when the next words starts with a vowel and thy in other cases. The expressions "rightfully thine" and "commoners of thine" are special cases where I guess the your/yours rule applies.
That sounds good to me :)
Regardless, thank you so much for taking the time to do this!
No worries! It will be great to bring the TPR campaign more to life. The breifings to TSK were so well written and spoken that the campaign was very engrossing even though it took so long to complete each mission. Actually the briefings remind me of the famous speeches from Shakespeare. I would love TPR to be the same as this as the maps are still of excellent quality. (I haven't played it much so I don't know whether the missions are fun or not)
<<

Ben

User avatar

Former Site Admin

Posts: 3814

Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00

Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)

Post 11 Nov 2011, 03:07

I would prefer that, damn Americans messing with our good English :P
But if we did that we'd have to change corn to wheat and lots of other things that I don't think should change, so I vote we just use British English in the briefings as that are meant to be old English which was certainly not influenced by the Americans :P
You should know better Lewin: I was very offended by this.

NAH! Just kidding! :D It actually brought a smile to my face. You are 100% correct; though.
I might add that, since joining this forum, I have been unable to help myself from using English spelling, epically colour and grey :P
I used to spam this forum so much...
<<

Danjb

Sword Fighter

Posts: 288

Joined: 14 May 2007, 22:00

Post 12 Nov 2011, 10:20

I think "scoundrel's rule" is best. Makes sense, and sounds better than "scoundrelly".

I think Lewin is right about "hath", although I don't think I changed that; my main point was regarding the end of the sentence - combining all the changes, I think it should be:
"The renegades has a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."

Regarding "thy" and "thine":
I think it is true that "thy" is "your" and "thine" is "yours", EXCEPT when "thy" is followed by a vowel, in which case it becomes "thine".

I would definitely prefer English spelling to be used.

Thanks for keeping the first post updated Litude, very helpful! Once we've ironed out these last few issues they'll be ready for recording.
<<

Litude

User avatar

King Karolus

Posts: 1233

Joined: 01 May 2006, 22:00

Website: http://www.knightsandmerchants.net

Location: Finland

Post 12 Nov 2011, 15:45

I think "scoundrel's rule" is best. Makes sense, and sounds better than "scoundrelly".
I used scoundrels' rule, think it might be better since I'm not too sure rebels would have a single leader.
I think Lewin is right about "hath", although I don't think I changed that; my main point was regarding the end of the sentence - combining all the changes, I think it should be:
"The renegades has a bastion far to the northeast, through an underground pass that leadeth through the steep mountains."
I used that, but changed "has" to "have". :wink:

Also added mission 11.

Return to “1.60 Patch (Service Release 3)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests