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Opinion about stuff in the English translation?

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Litude

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Post 30 Jul 2008, 19:57

Opinion about stuff in the English translation?

I thought I would keep the main Service Release 3 thread mainly for bugs that are present in all language versions of the game and dedicate a thread of it's own for the English translation of the game.
There are some lines in the game that I suggest a change for but would appreciate hearing opinions.

Firstly, when playing multiplayer you have the possibility of choosing what to start with. One of the options is called "Troups". I couldn't find this word in any dictionary that I looked up. Does anyone know whether it could be some old English or just a misspelling of "Troops"?

Two other minor things I'm about to change is to make the "needs:" text that can be seen when selecting buildings to start with a capital letter (Needs:) and "delivers" to "Delivers". Anyone got anything against making the first letter of these words capital?

Thirdly, the brightest color setting, "Extremely Bright", is too long to fit onto the line where it's supposed to be. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to replace this?
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Wpnfire

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Post 30 Jul 2008, 23:13

Troups is not a word, just ran it through a German translator and it gave me nothing. In fact Firefox is trying to get me to correct it now. Needs and Delivers is fine. Try Brightest.
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Litude

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Post 30 Jul 2008, 23:30

Wpfnire wrote:Troups is not a word, just ran it through a German translator and it gave me nothing.

Pretty much what I suspected.

Wpfnire wrote:Try Brightest.

D'oh, don't know why I didn't think about that.
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Lewin

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Post 31 Jul 2008, 06:58

Yeah, Brightest would be good.
Troup is defiantly a spelling mistake of troops. You should change all the bits saying troups to troops. This is the reason why the early version of my editor called troops troups. I copied it from KaM. Also, the word groups (rhymes with troops) has a U. I hate English sometimes.... :(
Also, just testing my LIB decoder I noticed a HUGE number of mistakes. The only two I can think of are Fischer in the fisherman's description. Should be fisherman, as fisher is a poor translation, and it doesn't have the C anyway!! (that's German spelling) The other one: "The animal breeder breeds animals in the pig and horse breeding centers." (not exactly it, but you get the point) It should say Swine farms and Stables.
Would you like me to give you a list of all the mistakes? Then you can correct them if you think they need it. I think this would improve the game a lot, as currently it looks like some of the text was translated by a German who only spoke good English, not natural English.
Lewin.
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Litude

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Post 31 Jul 2008, 08:34

lewin wrote:Also, just testing my LIB decoder I noticed a HUGE number of mistakes. The only two I can think of are Fischer in the fisherman's description. Should be fisherman, as fisher is a poor translation, and it doesn't have the C anyway!! (that's German spelling)

Huh, there's no Fischer in my fisherman description? But yeah, it should be changed to fisherman.

lewin wrote:The other one: "The animal breeder breeds animals in the pig and horse breeding centers." (not exactly it, but you get the point) It should say Swine farms and Stables.

Should probably be changed, the translation is full of errors like these.

lewin wrote:Would you like me to give you a list of all the mistakes? Then you can correct them if you think they need it. I think this would improve the game a lot, as currently it looks like some of the text was translated by a German who only spoke good English, not natural English.
Lewin.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea but I don't think we should be attempting to rewrite the whole game either. :D

Anyways some of my suggestions:
Fisher's hut -> Fisherman's hut
Townhall -> Town hall
Vehicles workshop -> Siege workshop
(Doesn't a vehicle mean some modern stuff like cars etc.?)
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Lewin

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Post 01 Aug 2008, 06:13

Yet-another-message from the lord of large posts

Litude wrote:Doesn't sound like a bad idea but I don't think we should be attempting to rewrite the whole game either. :D

I know. But a few of these things look really bad me and should be changed.

Litude wrote:Anyways some of my suggestions:
Fisher's hut -> Fisherman's hut
Townhall -> Town hall
Vehicles workshop -> Siege workshop
(Doesn't a vehicle mean some modern stuff like cars etc.?)

Ok, they all look fine to me. Yes, vehicle mean cars, trucks, etc. I have never heard it used for siege equipment before. (technically vehicle can mean anything on wheels but I don't think it's a good word to use) Some people might object to this change as it is quite major, but I am all for it.

Here is my list of mistakes: First is index, next is the current string, last is what I think it should be. Strings with question marks are ones that I'm not sure should be changed, because they are so fundamental to the game.
Setup.LIB:
- 101 - Troups - Troops
- 102 - Troups and buildings - Troops and buildings

Text.LIB
- 7 - Fisher's hut - Fisherman's hut
- 19 - Townhall - Town hall
- 24 - Vehicles workshop - Siege workshop
- 25 - Butcher's - Butchery - ???
- 59 - Iron armament - Iron armor - ??? (armament means weapon I think)
- 102 "The miner gets ore from the coal, iron and gold mines." - "The miner mines ore from the coal, iron and gold mines." - (gets is a very unofficial word and doesn't look good in this situation)
- 103 - "In the swine and horse breeding centers, the animal breeder raises the animals using corn." - "The animal breeder raises animals in the swine farm and stables using corn." - (rearranged to make it sound better in English, and changed breeding centers)
- 104 - "The farmer plants and harvests corn on the farm. He also presses wine in the vineyard." - "The farmer plants and harvests corn on the farm. He also produces wine in the vineyard." - (presses sounds a bit strange)
- 105 - "The carpenter works in the sawmill, the weapons workshop and in the armory workshop. In addition the carpenter builds catapults and ballistas in the vehicles workshop." - "The carpenter works in the sawmill, the weapons workshop and the armory workshop. In addition, the carpenter builds catapults and ballistas in the siege workshop." - (apparently the plural of ballista is ballistae, but that sounds really weird so I used balistas)
- 106 - "The baker bakes bread in the bakery. He also makes flour out of corn in the windmill." - "The baker bakes bread in the bakery. He also makes flour out of corn in the mill." (it's not really called the windmill, and that may confuse people)
- 107 - "The butcher makes sausages in the butcher's and leather in the tannery." - "The butcher makes sausages in the butchery and leather in the tannery." (sounds really weird with the butcher in the butcher's, so I changed it to butchery, a better word)
- 108 - "The fisher catches fishes in nearby water bodies." - "The fisherman catches fish in nearby water bodies. The fish will eventually run out, so don't over fish." - (fishes is NOT a proper word. Leave out the bit about over fishing if you like, but I really think it should be explained somewhere)
- 112 - "The metallurgist manufactures gold chests and steel from gold and iron ore." - "The metallurgist manufactures gold and steel from gold and iron ore." (Gold is not called gold chests in the game, and I think it sounds a bit strange like that. Just gold is fine)
- 113 - "The recruit can be equipped out as a soldier in the castle. He also occupies the guard tower." - "The recruit can be equipped as a soldier in the barracks. He also occupies the watch tower." (out is unnecessary)
- 191 - "Extremely bright" - "Brightest"
- 263 - "Start attack." - "Charge" (start attack doesn't really explain what this command does. I like change, since that's what they do!)
- 265 & 270 - "Withdraw line." - "Remove line." (to me withdraw means retreat)
- 287 - "New alliances are made." - "New alliances have been made." (don't know if this is still a used message. Also, my version may not fit as it is a bit longer)
- 294 - "The fisher cannot catch more fishes." - "Your fisherman cannot catch any more fish." - (all the other messages refer to them as "your" not "the", so I changed it. The whole message sounded wrong so I changed it a bit.)
- 296 - "This troop is really hungry, they better get something to eat real soon!" - "This troop is hungry, you'd better give them something to eat soon!" - (real soon sound too American, and it's incorrect grammar anyway. I changed it to "you'd" as they don't feed them selfs do they?)
- 301 - "To distribution of boards" - "To distribution of timber" (it's not called boards anywhere else, so why should it be here?)
- 302 - "Board distribution" - "Timber distribution"
- 305 - "Please enter message text:" - "Please enter message:" (text makes it sound poorly translated)

Tutorial text: (original messages not shown. Some of these were REALLY bad grammar so these are one of the most important things to change)
- 500 - "From time to time your citizens must eat. For this, you must construct an inn. Be sure to make the inn central, so it is easily accessible for all villagers."
- 501 - "You'll need a schoolhouse to train new units. Make sure you always have enough gold in the storehouse for this."
- 502 - "You need stones for further house and road construction. Build a quarry near a supply of stone. Then you must train a stonemason who will produce your new building material. Near the water you should also build a fisherman's hut."
- 503 - "You don't just need stones to build houses and roads, but also timber. The woodcutter fells and plants trees which are then processed in the sawmill. Always build the woodcutter's hut near forest." (woods is a very English (UK) term, forest is more generic)
- 504 - "Now you need to construct a sawmill to process the tree trunks which the Woodcutter has felled. After doing that, you should train a carpenter to work in the sawmill."
- 506 - "Roughly 16 fields should be laid out for the farmer, as near as possible to the farm itself. Now you have to construct a mill to process the corn you harvest." (I think the mill must have originally been called the windmill, otherwise why all these messages calling it that?)
- 510 - ??? Whatever you decided to make it. I have already suggested to you what it could be. I should defiantly mention building weapon producing buildings. Let me know once you've decided and I'll check it for you.

(A bit longer than your list eh? :wink:)

I removed all formatting like new lines and non-breaking spaces. (you'll have to change them a bit anyway) If there are any of these that you disagree with please let me know and explain why. Also, some of these may be fixed already. For some reason I didn't think of installing SR3b2 before doing this :P. (I do have ELP 4 I think) I think I've got them all, I checked every string. (I think...)
Hope this all helps, makes you realise how many mistakes there are!
Lewin.
P.S. Any further English queries? I would really like to help as I see this patch as one of the most important things for KaM right now.
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Litude

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Post 01 Aug 2008, 16:43

Okay, you know that post of yours really made me open my eyes and realize how bad certain parts of the script are.

Setup.lib
lewin wrote:Troups - Troops

Done.

lewin wrote:Troups and buildings - Troops and buildings

Changed

Text.lib
lewin wrote:Fisher's hut - Fisherman's hut

Yeah

lewin wrote:Townhall - Town hall

Right

lewin wrote:Vehicles workshop - Siege workshop

Great

lewin wrote:Butcher's - Butchery - ???

Nah, Butcher's really isn't incorrect per se and I don't really see anything wrong with the name.

lewin wrote:Iron armament - Iron armor - ??? (armament means weapon I think)

Isn't armament pretty much any type of equipment (weapon & armor)? So yeah, armament is a bit off.

lewin wrote:"The miner gets ore from the coal, iron and gold mines." - "The miner mines ore from the coal, iron and gold mines." - (gets is a very unofficial word and doesn't look good in this situation)

Changing gets to mines definitely sounds better.

lewin wrote:"In the swine and horse breeding centers, the animal breeder raises the animals using corn." - "The animal breeder raises animals in the swine farm and stables using corn." - (rearranged to make it sound better in English, and changed breeding centers)

Yeah that original is quite off. There's still something I don't like about that sentence but don't ask me what... Maybe it would sound better if you replaced raises with breeds?

lewin wrote:"The farmer plants and harvests corn on the farm. He also presses wine in the vineyard." - "The farmer plants and harvests corn on the farm. He also produces wine in the vineyard." - (presses sounds a bit strange)

Yeah.

lewin wrote:"The carpenter works in the sawmill, the weapons workshop and in the armory workshop. In addition the carpenter builds catapults and ballistas in the vehicles workshop." - "The carpenter works in the sawmill, the weapons workshop and the armory workshop. In addition, the carpenter builds catapults and ballistas in the siege workshop." - (apparently the plural of ballista is ballistae, but that sounds really weird so I used balistas)

I think we should use ballistae as it is the correct way of saying it after all.

lewin wrote:"The baker bakes bread in the bakery. He also makes flour out of corn in the windmill." - "The baker bakes bread in the bakery. He also makes flour out of corn in the mill." (it's not really called the windmill, and that may confuse people)

Probably should be changed, but it does make the script slightly more interesting.

lewin wrote:"The butcher makes sausages in the butcher's and leather in the tannery." - "The butcher makes sausages in the butchery and leather in the tannery." (sounds really weird with the butcher in the butcher's, so I changed it to butchery, a better word)

This one I agree with, even if we decide to keep the building name as butcher's this piece of script does make more sense as butchery (besides it's not so hard to associate butchery and butcher's, right? :P)

lewin wrote:"The fisher catches fishes in nearby water bodies." - "The fisherman catches fish in nearby water bodies. The fish will eventually run out, so don't over fish." - (fishes is NOT a proper word. Leave out the bit about over fishing if you like, but I really think it should be explained somewhere)

Yeah I planned to change this in ELP4 already but seems like I forgot :oops:. But that last part does not fit at all in the description (fish running out). Maybe the message mentioning the fisherman's hut in the tutorial could be slightly expanded to include this note?

lewin wrote:"The metallurgist manufactures gold chests and steel from gold and iron ore." - "The metallurgist manufactures gold and steel from gold and iron ore." (Gold is not called gold chests in the game, and I think it sounds a bit strange like that. Just gold is fine)

Well then again, iron is not called steel either :D. But gold chests does sound quite awkward. Still whilst I'm not a native speaker, it doesn't sound right to me to say that he manufactures gold from gold ore? Changing manufactures to refines (he refines gold or refines gold ore into gold or something) or something would make a lot more sense, but if the chest part is taken away I think the manufactures part doesn't fit in in the new context.

lewin wrote:"The recruit can be equipped out as a soldier in the castle. He also occupies the guard tower." - "The recruit can be equipped as a soldier in the barracks. He also occupies the watch tower." (out is unnecessary)

Out does sound very wrong. This is again a case where I see that the script is more interesting when not saying watchtower directly :D.

lewin wrote:"Extremely bright" - "Brightest"

Yeah.

lewin wrote:"Start attack." - "Charge" (start attack doesn't really explain what this command does. I like change, since that's what they do!)

Definitely better, but adding exclamation mark after charge would make it even better for the effect, right?

lewin wrote:"Withdraw line." - "Remove line." (to me withdraw means retreat)

I'm not too sure about this one... If you ask me, withdraw sounds better than remove line.

lewin wrote:"New alliances are made." - "New alliances have been made." (don't know if this is still a used message. Also, my version may not fit as it is a bit longer)

As far as I know, this line is not used in the game. Can't remember seeing any of these messages when playing multiplayer.

lewin wrote:"The fisher cannot catch more fishes." - "Your fisherman cannot catch any more fish." - (all the other messages refer to them as "your" not "the", so I changed it. The whole message sounded wrong so I changed it a bit.)

That sounds ways better. On the other hand, the original message is completely off, because this message is sent when you build the fisherman's hut to a place where no water can be reached. Yeah it was definitely meant for this message to be sent once the sea was emptied of fish but I guess it never happened.

lewin wrote:"This troop is really hungry, they better get something to eat real soon!" - "This troop is hungry, you'd better give them something to eat soon!" - (real soon sound too American, and it's incorrect grammar anyway. I changed it to "you'd" as they don't feed them selfs do they?)

Bah, don't ask me why, but I really like this line :D

lewin wrote:"To distribution of boards" - "To distribution of timber" (it's not called boards anywhere else, so why should it be here?)

To be consistent with the rest, this should be changed to "To timber distribution". I never really understood why the timber distribution used a different line.

lewin wrote:"Board distribution" - "Timber distribution"

Okay.

lewin wrote:"Please enter message text:" - "Please enter message:" (text makes it sound poorly translated)

Right.

Tutorial
lewin wrote:"From time to time your citizens must eat. For this, you must construct an inn. Be sure to make the inn central, so it is easily accessible for all villagers."

Good, but in my opinion, making an inn central does not bear exactly the same meaning as locating an inn centrally.

lewin wrote:"You'll need a schoolhouse to train new units. Make sure you always have enough gold in the storehouse for this."

Units isn't really a good word. Serfs on the other hand is quite good because all the citizens are your servants after all. Still, citizens might do the trick.

lewin wrote:"You need stones for further house and road construction. Build a quarry near a supply of stone. Then you must train a stonemason who will produce your new building material. Near the water you should also build a fisherman's hut."

This is quite good, but I suggest that the middle part (producing building materials) maybe should see a change. Also changing "can" to "should" isn't really a too good idea, because they do not mean the same thing. Can is just suggesting, should is more like commanding. "You can also build a fisherman's hut near the water" or something.

lewin wrote:"You don't just need stones to build houses and roads, but also timber. The woodcutter fells and plants trees which are then processed in the sawmill. Always build the woodcutter's hut near forest." (woods is a very English (UK) term, forest is more generic)

Huh, I always thought woods was more commonly used in the US than in the UK? The first time I heard the word woods I heard it from a guy from the US. And "near forest" is definitely not correct, I guess you forgot the "a" :D

lewin wrote:"Now you need to construct a sawmill to process the tree trunks which the Woodcutter has felled. After doing that, you should train a carpenter to work in the sawmill."

Maybe not that necessary, but it does sound slightly better.

lewin wrote:"Roughly 16 fields should be laid out for the farmer, as near as possible to the farm itself. Now you have to construct a mill to process the corn you harvest." (I think the mill must have originally been called the windmill, otherwise why all these messages calling it that?)

Close sounds better than near to my ears in this context. But yeah I guess the mill part will see a change.

lewin wrote:??? Whatever you decided to make it. I have already suggested to you what it could be. I should defiantly mention building weapon producing buildings. Let me know once you've decided and I'll check it for you.

Yeah I decided to combine the stuff that is sent to you in the demo with the message in the tutorial of the final game. Not done yet with that message,


Some of my suggestions (original above, modified below):
The Shattered Kingdom
To be honest, I really like the script in used in The Shattered Kingdom. Just a few typos and maybe a slightly faulty word here or there sometimes.

[code]Thou must needs speedily equip new militia units! Shouldst thou fail to do this, we shall be defenceless against enemy attack!
---
Thou must needs speedily equip new militia units! Shouldst thou fail to do this, we shall be defenseless against enemy attack!
[/quote]
From what I've noticed, the game prefers american English over British.

[code]It shall not be long 'til the barbarians fall upon us. Prepare thy defences well or the scoundrels shall breach thy defences.
---
It shall not be long 'til the barbarians fall upon us. Prepare thy defenses well or the scoundrels shall breach thy defenses.[/quote]
Same deal.

[code]To thy weapons!
A huge enemy force makes its way toward thee!
---
To thy weapons!
A huge enemy force makes its way towards thee![/quote]
Isn't it more correct to say towards?


The Peasants Rebellion
Unlike the script used in The Shattered Kingdom, I completely hate the script that was used in The Peasants Rebellion. All the messages are just so plain and there are (were) tons of errors.
What I'd really like would be to rewrite all of the messages preferably in the "Old English" style that is used in The Shattered Kingdom. It would really make the package feel more like a single game. As it is now, there's a clear difference between the quality of The Shattered Kingdom campaign and The Peasants Rebellion campaign, which is exactly why I felt a final patch was needed.
In the end, there are really only a few messages in the campaign after all so it wouldn't be that huge of a job. In case this never gets of the ground though, here are some small suggestions for the current messages:

[code]More groups of enemy soldiers are closing in on us&NBS;from the west![/quote]
Don't really have a suggestion for this one, but groups sounds bad.

[code]To support your army you should recruit more mercenary troops in the townhall.
---
To support your army, you should hire more mercenaries from the town hall[/quote]
Is from correct?

[code]Perhaps the back entrance would be the best way to infiltrate the castle.[/quote]
This also sounds just plain bad. Must be made more interesting.

I guess I just did the longest post in my life, forgive me.
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Lewin

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Post 02 Aug 2008, 08:17

Litude wrote:Nah, Butcher's really isn't incorrect per se and I don't really see anything wrong with the name.

After posting that message I had a think about it and I agree with you. Butcher's is fine.

Litude wrote:Isn't armament pretty much any type of equipment (weapon & armor)? So yeah, armament is a bit off.

I think so. The only place that I've heard it used these days is in "The main armament on the tank." (referring to the tanks cannon) But I suppose it could mean armour as well. There's nothing wrong with Iron Armour (in my option) so I suggest you change it to that.

Litude wrote:Yeah that original is quite off. There's still something I don't like about that sentence but don't ask me what... Maybe it would sound better if you replaced raises with breeds?

Yeah, I know what you mean. I like the word raises more, otherwise it's two breeds next to each other, and that sounds a bit off. Also, the animal breeder raises the animals, he doesn't "breed" them. :wink: Looking at it now, I think that the bit about the corn is unnecessary. (after all, it doesn't say that the carpenter uses wood to make weapons, does it?) So how about this:
[code]The animal breeder raises pigs in the swine farm, and horses in the stables.[/quote]

Litude wrote:I think we should use ballistae as it is the correct way of saying it after all.

OK then. Don't forget the change to Siege workshop though!


Litude wrote:Probably should be changed, but it does make the script slightly more interesting.

Yeah, you're right. It doesn't matter that much, it's still quite understandable. So just leave it then if you like.

Litude wrote:This one I agree with, even if we decide to keep the building name as butcher's this piece of script does make more sense as butchery (besides it's not so hard to associate butchery and butcher's, right? :P)

Yeah. Good idea.

Litude wrote:Yeah I planned to change this in ELP4 already but seems like I forgot :oops:. But that last part does not fit at all in the description (fish running out). Maybe the message mentioning the fisherman's hut in the tutorial could be slightly expanded to include this note?

Yeah you're right. OK, mention it in the tutorial and that will be fine. Are you happy with the other changes. BTW: No offence, but I really noticed very few differences in ELP4. (not that I was looking for them, but there are still lots of mistakes)

Litude wrote:Well then again, iron is not called steel either :D. But gold chests does sound quite awkward. Still whilst I'm not a native speaker, it doesn't sound right to me to say that he manufactures gold from gold ore? Changing manufactures to refines (he refines gold or refines gold ore into gold or something) or something would make a lot more sense, but if the chest part is taken away I think the manufactures part doesn't fit in in the new context.

This is a tricky one. Refines is a good word for it. Just thinking about it and writting it how I would describe him: (not changing the old description)
[code]The metallurgist refines iron ore and gold ore into iron and gold.[/quote]

Litude wrote:Out does sound very wrong. This is again a case where I see that the script is more interesting when not saying watchtower directly :D.

No, I disagree on this. I think it should say watchtower.

Litude wrote:Definitely better, but adding exclamation mark after charge would make it even better for the effect, right?

Excellent idea!! Charge! would be perfect. :wink:

Litude wrote:I'm not too sure about this one... If you ask me, withdraw sounds better than remove line.

Yeah, I suppose. Maybe I was being too fussy. Keep it as withdraw.

Litude wrote:As far as I know, this line is not used in the game. Can't remember seeing any of these messages when playing multiplayer.

I would suggest that you change it anyway, just in case. After all, you can change alliances and so maybe it sends other players a message then? (it's not much work changing it anyway...)

Litude wrote:That sounds ways better. On the other hand, the original message is completely off, because this message is sent when you build the fisherman's hut to a place where no water can be reached. Yeah it was definitely meant for this message to be sent once the sea was emptied of fish but I guess it never happened.

Yes, you're right. In that case my message is wrong. So how about:
[code]Your fisherman is too far away from the water.[/quote] Does it also need to say: "demolish the building and rebuild it closer?" (I think it doesn't)

Litude wrote:Bah, don't ask me why, but I really like this line :D

He he, I guess so. It would change the feel of the game so lets leave it.

Tutorial
Litude wrote:Good, but in my opinion, making an inn central does not bear exactly the same meaning as locating an inn centrally.

Yes it does mean the same thing, but it's more ambiguous. The main thing I wanted to change was "to this end". That sounded so incorrect... :( How about we use:
[code]From time to time your citizens must eat. For this, you must construct an inn. Be sure to locate the inn centrally, so it is easily accessible for all villagers.[/quote]

Litude wrote:Units isn't really a good word. Serfs on the other hand is quite good because all the citizens are your servants after all. Still, citizens might do the trick.

I disagree. In KaM a serf is a serf, and it is confusing to call all units serfs. OK, I suggest you use citizens. (just as long as it's not serfs):
[code]You'll need a schoolhouse to train new citizens. Make sure you always have enough gold in the storehouse for this.[/quote]

Litude wrote:This is quite good, but I suggest that the middle part (producing building materials) maybe should see a change. Also changing "can" to "should" isn't really a too good idea, because they do not mean the same thing. Can is just suggesting, should is more like commanding. "You can also build a fisherman's hut near the water" or something.

Well, I'd say can is suggesting, should is recommending and must is commanding.
I've changed it all quite a lot: (and added a bit about fish running out. This is necessary, as I didn't know this when I first played TPR, and I thought it might be a bug)
[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a stone mountain, and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it. Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut, and train a fisherman to work in it. The supply of fish will eventually run out, so don't over fish.[/quote]
Is that too long to fit in a message? That really sounds a heap better, and it's easier to understand. Do you think "stone mountain" is OK? If not we could use "stone pile"

Litude wrote:Huh, I always thought woods was more commonly used in the US than in the UK? The first time I heard the word woods I heard it from a guy from the US. And "near forest" is definitely not correct, I guess you forgot the "a" :D

I must have been tired when I wrote that. :oops: Yes, you're 100% correct. Woods is American, that was what I meant to say. And there should be an "a". And I just realised, it says "to build roads". Who builds roads with timber :lol: Corrected version:
[code]You don't just need stones to construct buildings, but also timber. The woodcutter fells and plants trees which are then processed in the sawmill. Always build the woodcutter's hut near a forest.[/quote]

Litude wrote:Close sounds better than near to my ears in this context. But yeah I guess the mill part will see a change.

Yes, sorry about that. Close is far better, why did I write near? I think as this is the tutorial, it should use the buildings real names. People may spend ages searching for a "Windmill", when it's really just called "Mill".

Litude wrote:To be honest, I really like the script in used in The Shattered Kingdom. Just a few typos and maybe a slightly faulty word here or there sometimes.

Me too. I'd just like to say: I didn't check the briefings or in-game messages, so I'll do that some time.
Hmm... It's a difficult decision between American and British, when there is no generic term. I would prepher the British version (defence) but I guess this is the US release...

Litude wrote:Isn't it more correct to say towards?

I would say so. I'm no expert on old English, but I'd still say use towards.

The Peasants Rebellion
Litude wrote:Unlike the script used in The Shattered Kingdom, I completely hate the script that was used in The Peasants Rebellion. All the messages are just so plain and there are (were) tons of errors.
What I'd really like would be to rewrite all of the messages preferably in the "Old English" style that is used in The Shattered Kingdom. It would really make the package feel more like a single game. As it is now, there's a clear difference between the quality of The Shattered Kingdom campaign and The Peasants Rebellion campaign, which is exactly why I felt a final patch was needed.
In the end, there are really only a few messages in the campaign after all so it wouldn't be that huge of a job. In case this never gets of the ground though, here are some small suggestions for the current messages:

I couldn't agree more. It looks poorly done, and I guess either Peter or Adam did the translations, not a native English person. I will rewrite all the in-game messages for you, and correct mistakes in TSK too while I'm at it. I guess we can't change the briefings. (unless we get someone else to read them) To tell the truth, I really dislike the new reader, the TSK one sounded really authentic and great, but the new one sounds weird.
I therefore won't comment on what you wrote, as I'll be checking each string myself.

Litude wrote:I guess I just did the longest post in my life, forgive me.

He he, well mine aren't exactly short either, and I forgive you.
This is going to be a big patch!!
Lewin.
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Post 02 Aug 2008, 23:45

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Isn't armament pretty much any type of equipment (weapon & armor)? So yeah, armament is a bit off.

I think so. The only place that I've heard it used these days is in "The main armament on the tank." (referring to the tanks cannon) But I suppose it could mean armour as well. There's nothing wrong with Iron Armour (in my option) so I suggest you change it to that.

Right, but since we are (afaik) following the US standard of writing, that'll be "Iron armor".

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Yeah that original is quite off. There's still something I don't like about that sentence but don't ask me what... Maybe it would sound better if you replaced raises with breeds?

Yeah, I know what you mean. I like the word raises more, otherwise it's two breeds next to each other, and that sounds a bit off. Also, the animal breeder raises the animals, he doesn't "breed" them. :wink: Looking at it now, I think that the bit about the corn is unnecessary. (after all, it doesn't say that the carpenter uses wood to make weapons, does it?) So how about this:
[code]The animal breeder raises pigs in the swine farm, and horses in the stables.
[/quote]
Removing that corn part does make the sentence feel more natural. Still with some rewording the corn part should be possible to add back, but it might not be that necessary.
I'm no expert on English grammar, but I know that in both Finnish and Swedish (my two native languages :P) it is incorrect to put a comma before "and" (except in some few rare special cases). Is this also the case in English?

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Probably should be changed, but it does make the script slightly more interesting.

Yeah, you're right. It doesn't matter that much, it's still quite understandable. So just leave it then if you like.

After giving it a longer thought, I decided to change it.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Yeah I planned to change this in ELP4 already but seems like I forgot :oops:. But that last part does not fit at all in the description (fish running out). Maybe the message mentioning the fisherman's hut in the tutorial could be slightly expanded to include this note?

Yeah you're right. OK, mention it in the tutorial and that will be fine. Are you happy with the other changes. BTW: No offence, but I really noticed very few differences in ELP4. (not that I was looking for them, but there are still lots of mistakes)

Yeah but I didn't have any tool when doing the text edits for ELP4 making it harder to locate these errors :wink:. Had to contact The Knight and then he did the changes and sent the modified stuff to me.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Well then again, iron is not called steel either :D. But gold chests does sound quite awkward. Still whilst I'm not a native speaker, it doesn't sound right to me to say that he manufactures gold from gold ore? Changing manufactures to refines (he refines gold or refines gold ore into gold or something) or something would make a lot more sense, but if the chest part is taken away I think the manufactures part doesn't fit in in the new context.

This is a tricky one. Refines is a good word for it. Just thinking about it and writting it how I would describe him: (not changing the old description)
[code]The metallurgist refines iron ore and gold ore into iron and gold.
[/quote]
Hmm... It that sentence doesn't seem to flow that natural in my opinion... I have no idea how to create a good natural sounding message though,
Mentioning "iron ore and gold ore" makes it a bit awkward, changing it to "iron and gold ore" would be slightly better, but then when the into part comes this might turn confusing, which is why the sentence should probably be rewritten in a way which makes perfect sense and sounds natural. This is just my first draft of what I suggest (original above):
[code]The metallurgist
manufactures gold
chests and steel from
gold and iron ore.
---
The metallurgist can
refine gold and iron
ore by using coal.[/quote]

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Out does sound very wrong. This is again a case where I see that the script is more interesting when not saying watchtower directly :D.

No, I disagree on this. I think it should say watchtower.

Yeah, now that I've been thinking about it I agree :wink:

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:As far as I know, this line is not used in the game. Can't remember seeing any of these messages when playing multiplayer.

I would suggest that you change it anyway, just in case. After all, you can change alliances and so maybe it sends other players a message then? (it's not much work changing it anyway...)

Yeah I'll change it, just was thinking that in case it would be used and not be printed in the game in the form of a sent message, this newer line might be too long to fit. But as I'm pretty confident that if this line is indeed used it would be sent in the form of a message, I'll change this.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:That sounds ways better. On the other hand, the original message is completely off, because this message is sent when you build the fisherman's hut to a place where no water can be reached. Yeah it was definitely meant for this message to be sent once the sea was emptied of fish but I guess it never happened.

Yes, you're right. In that case my message is wrong. So how about:
[code]Your fisherman is too far away from the water.
Does it also need to say: "demolish the building and rebuild it closer?" (I think it doesn't)[/quote]
That's a real good line which I'll use. The demolish part is definitely not needed.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Bah, don't ask me why, but I really like this line :D

He he, I guess so. It would change the feel of the game so lets leave it.

Yeah, the "real soon" part always puts a smile on my face :D

Tutorial
lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Good, but in my opinion, making an inn central does not bear exactly the same meaning as locating an inn centrally.

Yes it does mean the same thing, but it's more ambiguous. The main thing I wanted to change was "to this end". That sounded so incorrect... :( How about we use:
[code]From time to time your citizens must eat. For this, you must construct an inn. Be sure to locate the inn centrally, so it is easily accessible for all villagers.
[/quote]
Yeah, that line is good.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Units isn't really a good word. Serfs on the other hand is quite good because all the citizens are your servants after all. Still, citizens might do the trick.

I disagree. In KaM a serf is a serf, and it is confusing to call all units serfs. OK, I suggest you use citizens. (just as long as it's not serfs):
[code]You'll need a schoolhouse to train new citizens. Make sure you always have enough gold in the storehouse for this.
[/quote]
Training citizens it is!

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:This is quite good, but I suggest that the middle part (producing building materials) maybe should see a change. Also changing "can" to "should" isn't really a too good idea, because they do not mean the same thing. Can is just suggesting, should is more like commanding. "You can also build a fisherman's hut near the water" or something.

Well, I'd say can is suggesting, should is recommending and must is commanding.
I've changed it all quite a lot: (and added a bit about fish running out. This is necessary, as I didn't know this when I first played TPR, and I thought it might be a bug)
[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a stone mountain, and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it. Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut, and train a fisherman to work in it. The supply of fish will eventually run out, so don't over fish.

Is that too long to fit in a message? That really sounds a heap better, and it's easier to understand. Do you think "stone mountain" is OK? If not we could use "stone pile"[/quote]
[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a mountain that has a hard consistence making it possible to produce high quality stones and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it.
Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut which in turn will need a fisherman as its occupant. Eventually, the sea will run out of fish.[/quote]
Okay I overdid that mountain part :lol: I didn't like how "work in it" was used twice so I tried to make it more varying. Also the over fish part in my opinion suggests that if you do not over fish, the fish never runs out which is why I removed it (and without the over fish part the line didn't feel "right"). It might just be me though. Sea should be changed though but I'm too tired to think clearly.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Huh, I always thought woods was more commonly used in the US than in the UK? The first time I heard the word woods I heard it from a guy from the US. And "near forest" is definitely not correct, I guess you forgot the "a" :D

I must have been tired when I wrote that. :oops: Yes, you're 100% correct. Woods is American, that was what I meant to say. And there should be an "a". And I just realised, it says "to build roads". Who builds roads with timber :lol: Corrected version:
[code]You don't just need stones to construct buildings, but also timber. The woodcutter fells and plants trees which are then processed in the sawmill. Always build the woodcutter's hut near a forest.
[/quote]
Great.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Close sounds better than near to my ears in this context. But yeah I guess the mill part will see a change.

Yes, sorry about that. Close is far better, why did I write near? I think as this is the tutorial, it should use the buildings real names. People may spend ages searching for a "Windmill", when it's really just called "Mill".

It will be changed to mill.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:To be honest, I really like the script in used in The Shattered Kingdom. Just a few typos and maybe a slightly faulty word here or there sometimes.

Me too. I'd just like to say: I didn't check the briefings or in-game messages, so I'll do that some time.
Hmm... It's a difficult decision between American and British, when there is no generic term. I would prepher the British version (defence) but I guess this is the US release...

Yah but there was just one English translation, no separate edition for the UK and the US.

lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Isn't it more correct to say towards?

I would say so. I'm no expert on old English, but I'd still say use towards.

Okay.

The Peasants Rebellion
lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Unlike the script used in The Shattered Kingdom, I completely hate the script that was used in The Peasants Rebellion. All the messages are just so plain and there are (were) tons of errors.
What I'd really like would be to rewrite all of the messages preferably in the "Old English" style that is used in The Shattered Kingdom. It would really make the package feel more like a single game. As it is now, there's a clear difference between the quality of The Shattered Kingdom campaign and The Peasants Rebellion campaign, which is exactly why I felt a final patch was needed.
In the end, there are really only a few messages in the campaign after all so it wouldn't be that huge of a job. In case this never gets of the ground though, here are some small suggestions for the current messages:

I couldn't agree more. It looks poorly done, and I guess either Peter or Adam did the translations, not a native English person. I will rewrite all the in-game messages for you, and correct mistakes in TSK too while I'm at it. I guess we can't change the briefings. (unless we get someone else to read them) To tell the truth, I really dislike the new reader, the TSK one sounded really authentic and great, but the new one sounds weird.
I therefore won't comment on what you wrote, as I'll be checking each string myself.

To my understanding, the translation was done by someone at ZuXXeZ. They are also 100% German to my knowledge so that shouldn't matter on the other hand :D.
Anyway, great that you will be taking a look at this part since it will be especially troublesome!

lewin wrote:This is going to be a big patch!!

I certainly hope so :wink: (and it has already turned out ways bigger than I initially thought it would become).

If something didn't make sense, do tell. I have a bad tendency of writing these posts when I should have gone asleep hours ago.

Is there any additional native English speaker lurking around here? Having two people with native knowledge of the language looking over the changes would be a great help!
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Post 03 Aug 2008, 06:30

Another enormous post...

Litude wrote:Removing that corn part does make the sentence feel more natural. Still with some rewording the corn part should be possible to add back, but it might not be that necessary.
I'm no expert on English grammar, but I know that in both Finnish and Swedish (my two native languages :P) it is incorrect to put a comma before "and" (except in some few rare special cases). Is this also the case in English?

I think the whole thing about corn is unnecessary. After all, it doesn't say that the carpenter uses wood in the weapons workshop, or that the blacksmith uses coal and iron, so why should it say that here?
Oops!!!!!!! :oops: I seem to be making a lot of mistakes don't I? Yes, the comma is wrong, take it out! I think I was tired yesterday, thanks for correcting me.

Litude wrote:Yeah but I didn't have any tool when doing the text edits for ELP4 making it harder to locate these errors :wink:. Had to contact The Knight and then he did the changes and sent the modified stuff to me.

Do you think TK enjoys making other peoples lives difficult? Surely he trusts you enough with his precious LIB editing tool? You'd be the last person to leak it! I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have given my vote to him for the fan who contributed the most!!!!!

Litude wrote:Hmm... It that sentence doesn't seem to flow that natural in my opinion... I have no idea how to create a good natural sounding message though,
Mentioning "iron ore and gold ore" makes it a bit awkward, changing it to "iron and gold ore" would be slightly better, but then when the into part comes this might turn confusing, which is why the sentence should probably be rewritten in a way which makes perfect sense and sounds natural. This is just my first draft of what I suggest (original above):
[code]The metallurgist
manufactures gold
chests and steel from
gold and iron ore.
---
The metallurgist can
refine gold and iron
ore by using coal.
[/quote]
Not bad... Better than what I wrote before. I think it sounds better like this
[code]The metallurgist refines gold and iron ore using coal.[/quote]
A few of the words you used are not needed and sound wrong. Or perhaps this way is better
[code]The metallurgist uses coal to refine gold and iron ore.[/quote]
I'm not sure which is better, I'm not overly happy about this one. Anybody else got a better suggestion?

Tutorial

Litude wrote:[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a mountain that has a hard consistence making it possible to produce high quality stones and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it.
Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut which in turn will need a fisherman as its occupant. Eventually, the sea will run out of fish.

Okay I overdid that mountain part :lol: I didn't like how "work in it" was used twice so I tried to make it more varying. Also the over fish part in my opinion suggests that if you do not over fish, the fish never runs out which is why I removed it (and without the over fish part the line didn't feel "right"). It might just be me though. Sea should be changed though but I'm too tired to think clearly.[/quote]
I'd just like to say: I hope you're joking. :wink: I doubt that'd fit in a message anyway.
You did make a few good points though, and I've changed it again:
[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a stone mountain and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it.
Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut which in turn will need a fisherman as its occupant. Eventually the supply of fish will run out.[/quote]
Do you think that is ok?

Interestingly, I noticed 3 other tutorial messages in a different section. (bellow the others) I am not too happy about them, because they are written in old English, and we decided on plain English for the tutorial didn't we? (some of these are a bit hard to understand if you're new to the game) Also, they all come in a rush at the start (they don't wait for you to follow the inscructions) so that is why I sometimes wrote stuff like "once you've done that ..."
So here they are, changed for you. (old above, new bellow, you know the drill by now!)

604:
[code]Start building by left click on ye hammer icon on the left side of thy screen. Then thou must needs click on the Book (ye olde Schoolhouse) icon. Position the frame of thy schoolhouse on thy map where thou willst construct it and left click there.
----------
Start building by left clicking on the hammer icon on the left side of the screen. Then select the school house. (the book icon) Position the frame of the school house on the map where you want it to be constructed and click to place it.[/quote]

605:
[code]Once thou hast placed the school house, thou canst see that 'build road' has in troth become the default cursor. Thou must needs click each square where thou willst have a section of road built. Don't forget, thou must needs connect the road to the front door of every building.
----------
Once you have placed the school house, you will notice that 'build road' becomes the default cursor. Click to place squares of road and connect the road from the storehouse to the school house. Remember, you must connect road to the front door of every building.[/quote]

606:
[code]To train units, left click on the Schoolhouse and scroll through the 'next profession' button to select thy unit that thou doth wish to train. Then shalt thou left click on the 'Add to Queue' button. When trained, thy serfs shall, wonder of wonders, automatically start to perform their tasks.
----------
Once the labourers have finished constructing the school house, you can train new citizens. To do this, left click on the school house and scroll through the units by using the 'next profession' and 'previous profession' buttons until you have selected the units which you desire to train. Then click on the 'Add to Queue' button. When trained, your new citizens will automatically start to perform their tasks.[/quote]
That one was kind of weird... Wonder of wonders??????
I'd like some feedback on these, other things they need to include maybe?

Litude wrote:Yah but there was just one English translation, no separate edition for the UK and the US.

It doesn't matter too much, people will still understand it. But I think wherever possible (like with forest) we should use terms that are not specific to either nation.

The Peasants Rebellion
Litude wrote:To my understanding, the translation was done by someone at ZuXXeZ. They are also 100% German to my knowledge so that shouldn't matter on the other hand :D.
Anyway, great that you will be taking a look at this part since it will be especially troublesome!

Ok, I've looked through the TSK messages to brush up my old English skills, and written a first draft of the TPR messages. If I missed any, let me know. Please note that I've never played the TPR campaign, so I don't really understand the context these messages are used in. Let me know if I've over done it or you have a better idea. Remember: This is only a draft!

530:
[code]Our spies have seen enemy troops advancing on the southern camp. Defend the valuable goods in the warehouse.
--------
Our spies hath sighted an army of enemy troops advancing on thy camp in the south! Thou must needs defend the valuable goods in thine storehouse from the rebel force.[/quote]

531:
[code]An opposing army has been seen to the south of us. Stay alert!
--------
Our scouts behold an opposing army south of thy location! Keep thy wits about thee, or thine enemies may take thee by surprise![/quote]

532:
[code]More groups of enemy soldiers are closing in on us from the west!
--------
Bewarned! Further enemy troops are closing in on thee from the west! Drive them back with ye stalwart troops![/quote]

533:
[code]To support your army you should recruit more mercenary troops in the townhall.
--------
To support thy army thou shouldst need hire more mercenary troops from the town hall. These extra troops will strengthen thine army and help thee to repel the enemy.[/quote]

534:
[code]Perhaps the back entrance would be the best way to infiltrate the castle.
--------
Perchance if thou shouldst try the back entrance to thine enemies stronghold, thou mayst find it unguarded. With this advantage thou shouldst surely defeat thine enemy more easily.[/quote]

535:
[code]An enemy army is moving in from the mountains in the northwest, directly towards our base camp.
--------
An enemy force doth make it's way from the mountains that lieth to the northwest and even now is marching straight towards thy camp! Prepare thy troops well, so thou wilt be able to defeat this army utterly.[/quote]

536:
[code]The enemy has already discovered our new positions. Very soon we will be attacked by a strong battalion from the east.
--------
Thine enemy hath already discovered thy new position, and, very soon shalt send a strong battalion towards thee![/quote]

537:
[code]Beware! Enemy archers have been seen in the surrounding hills.
A fight in the gorge could mean our ruination.
--------
Beware! Our scouts hath sighted enemy archers hidden in the surrounding hills.
Methinks a fight in the open gorge could be our ruination.[/quote]

538:
[code]The opposing army is bigger than expected. Arm further units in your barracks.
--------
The opposing force is larger than our scouts hath led us to believe. Equip further soldiers from thy barracks, to support thine current army.[/quote]

539:
[code]You must, under all circumstances, protect the village in the south from enemy attacks.
--------
I stress once more upon thee, protect thine allied village to the south from thy enemies attack.[/quote]

607:
[code]Among the rebels there are some innocent citizens. Leave them and their settlements in peace, they are not your enemy. Concentrate on the hostile soldiers and their supply of weapons.
--------
Amongst ye rebels, innocent citizens do live. Do not allow thy troops to attack these peasants, they are not thine enemy. Concentrate instead thy troops upon the hostile soldiers and their supply of weapons. Shouldst thou perchance stop this weapon production, thy enemy troops wilt not be able to defend themselves.[/quote]

608:
[code]To banish the conquerors from the settlements, all soldiers must be defeated.
This is sufficient to intimidate the betrayer. After this "purge" the villages will join us and form no danger to us any longer.
--------
For thou to banish thy conquerors utterly, thou must needs to destroy all of their cowardly troops. Once this purge is complete, the peasants of the surrounding villages shall form and alliance with thee, and offer us danger no longer.[/quote]
Are they interesting enough now? :wink: Looking through some of the TSK messages it isn't that good, but it's certainly an improvement.

Litude wrote:Is there any additional native English speaker lurking around here? Having two people with native knowledge of the language looking over the changes would be a great help!

Well, Wpnfire is American, and they speak a kind of English... :wink: (sorry, couldn't resist!)
I think he's the only one. You're right, it'd be good to have someone else checking stuff, I do still make mistakes when I'm not thinking.
@Wpnfire: Are you interested in helping?
I was thinking, I may not have found all the errors in the two files, so I'll go through them again thoroughly once you release the next beta update.
Lewin.
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Post 03 Aug 2008, 09:45

Re: Another enormous post...

Lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Yeah but I didn't have any tool when doing the text edits for ELP4 making it harder to locate these errors :wink:. Had to contact The Knight and then he did the changes and sent the modified stuff to me.

Do you think TK enjoys making other peoples lives difficult? Surely he trusts you enough with his precious LIB editing tool? You'd be the last person to leak it! I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have given my vote to him for the fan who contributed the most!!!!!

He mentioned it being some deal between him and The Barbarian that their LIB editor was not to be distributed.

Lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Hmm... It that sentence doesn't seem to flow that natural in my opinion... I have no idea how to create a good natural sounding message though,
Mentioning "iron ore and gold ore" makes it a bit awkward, changing it to "iron and gold ore" would be slightly better, but then when the into part comes this might turn confusing, which is why the sentence should probably be rewritten in a way which makes perfect sense and sounds natural. This is just my first draft of what I suggest (original above):
[code]The metallurgist
manufactures gold
chests and steel from
gold and iron ore.
---
The metallurgist can
refine gold and iron
ore by using coal.

Not bad... Better than what I wrote before. I think it sounds better like this
[code]The metallurgist refines gold and iron ore using coal.[/quote]
A few of the words you used are not needed and sound wrong. Or perhaps this way is better
[code]The metallurgist uses coal to refine gold and iron ore.[/quote]
I'm not sure which is better, I'm not overly happy about this one. Anybody else got a better suggestion?[/quote]
Your first suggestions sounds the best.

Tutorial
Lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a mountain that has a hard consistence making it possible to produce high quality stones and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it.
Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut which in turn will need a fisherman as its occupant. Eventually, the sea will run out of fish.

Okay I overdid that mountain part :lol: I didn't like how "work in it" was used twice so I tried to make it more varying. Also the over fish part in my opinion suggests that if you do not over fish, the fish never runs out which is why I removed it (and without the over fish part the line didn't feel "right"). It might just be me though. Sea should be changed though but I'm too tired to think clearly.

I'd just like to say: I hope you're joking. :wink: I doubt that'd fit in a message anyway.
You did make a few good points though, and I've changed it again:
[code]You need to secure a supply of stones before you can continue constructing buildings. Build a quarry near a stone mountain and then train a stonemason from the school to work in it.
Near the water you can also build a fisherman's hut which in turn will need a fisherman as its occupant. Eventually the supply of fish will run out.[/quote]
Do you think that is ok?[/quote]
That is great, still don't like the "stone mountain" part that much, not that I have a better suggestion :lol:.

Lewin wrote:Interestingly, I noticed 3 other tutorial messages in a different section. (bellow the others)

These were added in Service Release 2, hence them being just padded at the end.

Lewin wrote:I am not too happy about them, because they are written in old English, and we decided on plain English for the tutorial didn't we? (some of these are a bit hard to understand if you're new to the game) Also, they all come in a rush at the start (they don't wait for you to follow the inscructions) so that is why I sometimes wrote stuff like "once you've done that ..."
So here they are, changed for you. (old above, new bellow, you know the drill by now!)

You're right, they should be changed to make the way of writing consistent in the tutorial.

Lewin wrote:604:
[code]Start building by left click on ye hammer icon on the left side of thy screen. Then thou must needs click on the Book (ye olde Schoolhouse) icon. Position the frame of thy schoolhouse on thy map where thou willst construct it and left click there.
----------
Start building by left clicking on the hammer icon on the left side of the screen. Then select the school house. (the book icon) Position the frame of the school house on the map where you want it to be constructed and click to place it.
[/quote]
Yeah this is really good. Two slight problems, shouldn't parentheses come before the sentence ends "Then select the school house (the book icon)." And I think the part about left clicking should stay.

Lewin wrote:605:
[code]Once thou hast placed the school house, thou canst see that 'build road' has in troth become the default cursor. Thou must needs click each square where thou willst have a section of road built. Don't forget, thou must needs connect the road to the front door of every building.
----------
Once you have placed the school house, you will notice that 'build road' becomes the default cursor. Click to place squares of road and connect the road from the storehouse to the school house. Remember, you must connect road to the front door of every building.
[/quote]
Great! That last mention of road should also be changed to "the road" in my opinion.

Lewin wrote:606:
[code]To train units, left click on the Schoolhouse and scroll through the 'next profession' button to select thy unit that thou doth wish to train. Then shalt thou left click on the 'Add to Queue' button. When trained, thy serfs shall, wonder of wonders, automatically start to perform their tasks.
----------
Once the labourers have finished constructing the school house, you can train new citizens. To do this, left click on the school house and scroll through the units by using the 'next profession' and 'previous profession' buttons until you have selected the units which you desire to train. Then click on the 'Add to Queue' button. When trained, your new citizens will automatically start to perform their tasks.

That one was kind of weird... Wonder of wonders??????
I'd like some feedback on these, other things they need to include maybe?[/quote]
I don't know if that first sentence is necessary as this is already told in the message that is sent before this one, could make it feel clumsy. Wonder of wonders was just for a nice effect I guess :D I kinda liked that part. Maybe it could stay? :wink:
One thing I noticed is how "next profession" is written all in small letters, whilst "Add to Queue" is using capitals. Maybe they should all be changed to match the formatting on the actual buttons?

Lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:Yah but there was just one English translation, no separate edition for the UK and the US.

It doesn't matter too much, people will still understand it. But I think wherever possible (like with forest) we should use terms that are not specific to either nation.

Sounds fair to me.

The Peasants Rebellion
Lewin wrote:
Litude wrote:To my understanding, the translation was done by someone at ZuXXeZ. They are also 100% German to my knowledge so that shouldn't matter on the other hand :D.
Anyway, great that you will be taking a look at this part since it will be especially troublesome!

Ok, I've looked through the TSK messages to brush up my old English skills, and written a first draft of the TPR messages. If I missed any, let me know. Please note that I've never played the TPR campaign, so I don't really understand the context these messages are used in. Let me know if I've over done it or you have a better idea. Remember: This is only a draft!

These are light years ahead of the originals!

Lewin wrote:530:
[code]Our spies have seen enemy troops advancing on the southern camp. Defend the valuable goods in the warehouse.
--------
Our spies hath sighted an army of enemy troops advancing on thy camp in the south! Thou must needs defend the valuable goods in thine storehouse from the rebel force.
[/quote]
This sounds really good but I don't like the "army of enemy troops". What about hostile army?
Also the original camp was maybe slightly off since it's merely a single storehouse. The German original talks about a storage (Lager), not a camp.

Lewin wrote:531:
[code]An opposing army has been seen to the south of us. Stay alert!
--------
Our scouts behold an opposing army south of thy location! Keep thy wits about thee, or thine enemies may take thee by surprise!
[/quote]
This is great!

Lewin wrote:532:
[code]More groups of enemy soldiers are closing in on us from the west!
--------
Bewarned! Further enemy troops are closing in on thee from the west! Drive them back with ye stalwart troops!
[/quote]
Great stuff too!

Lewin wrote:533:
[code]To support your army you should recruit more mercenary troops in the townhall.
--------
To support thy army thou shouldst need hire more mercenary troops from the town hall. These extra troops will strengthen thine army and help thee to repel the enemy.
[/quote]
This is also good, but the "extra troops" should probably be changed. Something suggesting that mercenaries are disloyal or something. Seditious or treasonable are my suggestions even though they are no rebels, I've always seen mercenaries as "evil" :D. "These seditious soldiers will...".

Lewin wrote:534:
[code]Perhaps the back entrance would be the best way to infiltrate the castle.
--------
Perchance if thou shouldst try the back entrance to thine enemies stronghold, thou mayst find it unguarded. With this advantage thou shouldst surely defeat thine enemy more easily.
[/quote]
This is good except for the "more easily". My suggestion is "with ease".

Lewin wrote:535:
[code]An enemy army is moving in from the mountains in the northwest, directly towards our base camp.
--------
An enemy force doth make it's way from the mountains that lieth to the northwest and even now is marching straight towards thy camp! Prepare thy troops well, so thou wilt be able to defeat this army utterly.
[/quote]
This is great stuff! Only remark is whether it should be doth make or doth makes?

Lewin wrote:536:
[code]The enemy has already discovered our new positions. Very soon we will be attacked by a strong battalion from the east.
--------
Thine enemy hath already discovered thy new position, and, very soon shalt send a strong battalion towards thee!
[/quote]
Great. Don't know if it would sound better to move the shalt before the very soon part?

Lewin wrote:537:
[code]Beware! Enemy archers have been seen in the surrounding hills.
A fight in the gorge could mean our ruination.
--------
Beware! Our scouts hath sighted enemy archers hidden in the surrounding hills.
Methinks a fight in the open gorge could be our ruination.
[/quote]
This is also great, but I think "could mean our..." sounds better than "could be our...".

Lewin wrote:538:
[code]The opposing army is bigger than expected. Arm further units in your barracks.
--------
The opposing force is larger than our scouts hath led us to believe. Equip further soldiers from thy barracks, to support thine current army.
[/quote]
Good. That comma is unnecessary, right? What about stalwart army? The messages in TSK make a lot of usage of this, miss it here :wink:

Lewin wrote:539:
[code]You must, under all circumstances, protect the village in the south from enemy attacks.
--------
I stress once more upon thee, protect thine allied village to the south from thy enemies attack.
[/quote]
This is great except for the last part. Shouldn't it be "thy enemy attacks"?

Lewin wrote:607:
[code]Among the rebels there are some innocent citizens. Leave them and their settlements in peace, they are not your enemy. Concentrate on the hostile soldiers and their supply of weapons.
--------
Amongst ye rebels, innocent citizens do live. Do not allow thy troops to attack these peasants, they are not thine enemy. Concentrate instead thy troops upon the hostile soldiers and their supply of weapons. Shouldst thou perchance stop this weapon production, thy enemy troops wilt not be able to defend themselves.
[/quote]
This one I like real much :D My suggestions are to change "attack" to "harm". The concentrate instead part seems a bit clumsy to me.

Lewin wrote:608:
[code]To banish the conquerors from the settlements, all soldiers must be defeated.
This is sufficient to intimidate the betrayer. After this "purge" the villages will join us and form no danger to us any longer.
--------
For thou to banish thy conquerors utterly, thou must needs to destroy all of their cowardly troops. Once this purge is complete, the peasants of the surrounding villages shall form and alliance with thee, and offer us danger no longer.
[/quote]
This is good, but "thy conquerors" is incorrect. It isn't you who they have conquered, but the peaceful villages in the surroundings. Just changing "thy" to "the" should do the trick.

Lewin wrote:Are they interesting enough now? :wink: Looking through some of the TSK messages it isn't that good, but it's certainly an improvement.

These are no doubt an improvement :D

Lewin wrote:I was thinking, I may not have found all the errors in the two files, so I'll go through them again thoroughly once you release the next beta update.
Lewin.

Okay. I also did some changes like change all mentions of "savegame" to "saved game". I'm also suggesting that the formatting used in the menu should be changed. Currently every word starts with a capital letter. Perhaps we should change this so that only the first letter is capital?
The next beta update is slated for the next weekend.
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Post 04 Aug 2008, 00:22

Re: Another enormous post...

Litude wrote:Your first suggestions sounds the best.

I agree. Use it, and if we think of something better then we'll change it later.

Tutorial
Litude wrote:That is great, still don't like the "stone mountain" part that much, not that I have a better suggestion :lol:.

Yeah, I agree. I think stone mountain is more informative than stone supply. Let's leave it as that unless we can think of a better version. Maybe make a note of all the strings we aren't completely happy with?

Litude wrote:These were added in Service Release 2, hence them being just padded at the end.

Ah... That also explains why they all come at the start of the tutorial.

Litude wrote:Yeah this is really good. Two slight problems, shouldn't parentheses come before the sentence ends "Then select the school house (the book icon)." And I think the part about left clicking should stay.

Yes, good points. Like this then:
[code]Start building by left clicking on the hammer icon on the left side of the screen. Then select the school house (the book icon). Position the frame of the school house on the map where you want it to be constructed and left click to place it.[/quote]

Litude wrote:Great! That last mention of road should also be changed to "the road" in my opinion.

I agree. Change it.

Litude wrote:I don't know if that first sentence is necessary as this is already told in the message that is sent before this one, could make it feel clumsy. Wonder of wonders was just for a nice effect I guess :D I kinda liked that part. Maybe it could stay? :wink:
One thing I noticed is how "next profession" is written all in small letters, whilst "Add to Queue" is using capitals. Maybe they should all be changed to match the formatting on the actual buttons?

I think the first sentence is needed, as this message will be appearing at the beginning with the others, and not once school is done. This is the tutorial, it's meant to point out the obvious.
No, I disagree. Wonder of wonders sounds corny and stupid. I really think this bit doesn't fit in the the rest of the text.
Yes, they should be formatted like the real strings. I saw a few other mistakes (laborers is now spelt the US way, and the s on units was wrong) So how about this:
[code]Once the laborers have finished constructing the school house, you can train new citizens. To do this, left click on the school house and scroll through the units by using the 'Next profession' and 'Previous profession' buttons until you have selected the unit which you desire to train. Then click on the 'Add to queue' button. When trained, your new citizens will automatically start to perform their tasks.[/quote]

The Peasants Rebellion
Litude wrote:These are light years ahead of the originals!

Thanks. I just pretended that I was the guy reading the briefings, and imagined how he would describe it. :wink: I have a friend who studies ancient languages (including Old English) so I'll ask him to have a look over them.

Litude wrote:This sounds really good but I don't like the "army of enemy troops". What about hostile army?
Also the original camp was maybe slightly off since it's merely a single storehouse. The German original talks about a storage (Lager), not a camp.

Ok, how about this then?
[code]Our spies hath sighted a hostile army advancing on thy storehouse to the south! Thou must needs defend the valuable goods from the rebel force.[/quote]

Litude wrote:This is also good, but the "extra troops" should probably be changed. Something suggesting that mercenaries are disloyal or something. Seditious or treasonable are my suggestions even though they are no rebels, I've always seen mercenaries as "evil" :D. "These seditious soldiers will...".

Mercenaries are not evil, but they don't care who wins the war. All they want is the money. But you're right, they shouldn't be called troops. It also sounded strange as the two troops were too close to each other. I also changed the last the to thy, so it sounds more authentic.
What about:
[code]To support thy army thou shouldst need hire more mercenary troops from the town hall. These seditious soldiers will strengthen thine army and help thee to repel thy enemy.[/quote]

Litude wrote:This is good except for the "more easily". My suggestion is "with ease".

Great idea!! That is perfect. Use "with ease".

Litude wrote:This is great stuff! Only remark is whether it should be doth make or doth makes?

No, you're wrong. It should defiantly be doth make. Think about it, only the first verb (doth) must be conjugated, the second one (make) doesn't need to be. If you use the modern equivalent words, "an army does make it's way towards you" sounds right, but "an army does makes it's way towards you" sounds wrong. I think you should leave it as is.

Litude wrote:Great. Don't know if it would sound better to move the shalt before the very soon part?

Yes, it would. Change it.

Litude wrote:This is also great, but I think "could mean our..." sounds better than "could be our...".

Once again, you're right.

Litude wrote:Good. That comma is unnecessary, right? What about stalwart army? The messages in TSK make a lot of usage of this, miss it here :wink:

Yeah, comma isn't needed. Yes, stalwart is a good word. It should be used more in modern speech. :wink: (This morning I got into ye stalwart car and drove to ye supermarket, where I bought ye stalwart milk and ye stalwart cereal for thine stalwart breakfast :lol:)
How about:
[code]The opposing force is larger than our scouts hath led us to believe. Equip further soldiers from thy barracks to support thine stalwart army.[/quote]

Litude wrote:This is great except for the last part. Shouldn't it be "thy enemy attacks"?

Yes, it should.

Litude wrote:This one I like real much :D My suggestions are to change "attack" to "harm". The concentrate instead part seems a bit clumsy to me.

Yes, harm sounds much better. Change it to that. I think the concentrate instead bit sounds ok. Do you have a better suggestion?

Litude wrote:This is good, but "thy conquerors" is incorrect. It isn't you who they have conquered, but the peaceful villages in the surroundings. Just changing "thy" to "the" should do the trick.

I didn't know this, as I haven't played the campaign. If that's the case then change it to "the" as you said.

Litude wrote:Okay. I also did some changes like change all mentions of "savegame" to "saved game".

I missed that one. :wink: Savegame sounds clumsy, that's a good change.

Litude wrote:I'm also suggesting that the formatting used in the menu should be changed. Currently every word starts with a capital letter. Perhaps we should change this so that only the first letter is capital?
The next beta update is slated for the next weekend.

No Litude, you're completely wrong. It is standard practice (in English) to make the first letter of each word (except for words like 'to' & 'and') capitol in headings, titles and menus. Changing this would make it look sloppy, I am 100% against it. Believe me, I know English better than you. :wink:
Great, I can't wait for the next weekend!
Lewin.
P.S. Do you agree with me that the version number for SR3 should have BETA in it until the final release?
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Post 04 Aug 2008, 10:58

Re: Another enormous post...

Tutorial
Lewin wrote:Yeah, I agree. I think stone mountain is more informative than stone supply. Let's leave it as that unless we can think of a better version. Maybe make a note of all the strings we aren't completely happy with?

Sounds like a good idea.

Lewin wrote:Yes, good points. Like this then:
[code]Start building by left clicking on the hammer icon on the left side of the screen. Then select the school house (the book icon). Position the frame of the school house on the map where you want it to be constructed and left click to place it.
[/quote]
Great, that'll work.

Lewin wrote:I think the first sentence is needed, as this message will be appearing at the beginning with the others, and not once school is done. This is the tutorial, it's meant to point out the obvious.

Yeah I misplaced the location of that message in my memory.

Lewin wrote:No, I disagree. Wonder of wonders sounds corny and stupid. I really think this bit doesn't fit in the the rest of the text.

Right.

Lewin wrote:Yes, they should be formatted like the real strings. I saw a few other mistakes (laborers is now spelt the US way, and the s on units was wrong) So how about this:
[code]Once the laborers have finished constructing the school house, you can train new citizens. To do this, left click on the school house and scroll through the units by using the 'Next profession' and 'Previous profession' buttons until you have selected the unit which you desire to train. Then click on the 'Add to queue' button. When trained, your new citizens will automatically start to perform their tasks.
[/quote]
That'll do the trick.

The Peasants Rebellion
Lewin wrote:Thanks. I just pretended that I was the guy reading the briefings, and imagined how he would describe it. :wink: I have a friend who studies ancient languages (including Old English) so I'll ask him to have a look over them.

Heh, it's not that old English though :D

Lewin wrote:Ok, how about this then?
[code]Our spies hath sighted a hostile army advancing on thy storehouse to the south! Thou must needs defend the valuable goods from the rebel force.
[/quote]
Perfect.

Lewin wrote:Mercenaries are not evil, but they don't care who wins the war. All they want is the money.

Yeah, hence me writing evil in quotation marks.

Lewin wrote:But you're right, they shouldn't be called troops. It also sounded strange as the two troops were too close to each other. I also changed the last the to thy, so it sounds more authentic.
What about:
[code]To support thy army thou shouldst need hire more mercenary troops from the town hall. These seditious soldiers will strengthen thine army and help thee to repel thy enemy.
[/quote]
Great stuff.

Lewin wrote:No, you're wrong. It should defiantly be doth make. Think about it, only the first verb (doth) must be conjugated, the second one (make) doesn't need to be. If you use the modern equivalent words, "an army does make it's way towards you" sounds right, but "an army does makes it's way towards you" sounds wrong. I think you should leave it as is.

Yeah you're completely right, was a bit unsure on this one.
Noticed a slight error in this though. It should be "doth make its way" (not it's), right?

Lewin wrote:(This morning I got into ye stalwart car and drove to ye supermarket, where I bought ye stalwart milk and ye stalwart cereal for thine stalwart breakfast :lol:)

Heh :lol:

Lewin wrote:How about:
[code]The opposing force is larger than our scouts hath led us to believe. Equip further soldiers from thy barracks to support thine stalwart army.
[/quote]
Flawless.

Lewin wrote:Yes, harm sounds much better. Change it to that. I think the concentrate instead bit sounds ok. Do you have a better suggestion?

Okay. No, I don't have any suggestion for that later part, I guess that might work.

Lewin wrote:I didn't know this, as I haven't played the campaign. If that's the case then change it to "the" as you said.

Yeah, which is why I explained the situation.

Lewin wrote:I missed that one. :wink: Savegame sounds clumsy, that's a good change.

Besides it's a German word :D

Lewin wrote:No Litude, you're completely wrong. It is standard practice (in English) to make the first letter of each word (except for words like 'to' & 'and') capitol in headings, titles and menus. Changing this would make it look sloppy, I am 100% against it. Believe me, I know English better than you. :wink:

Oh darn you're so right. Don't know how I managed to overlook that.

Lewin wrote:P.S. Do you agree with me that the version number for SR3 should have BETA in it until the final release?

I'll change the version number to 1.58 SR3 B and then change the copyright text (bottom) to say which beta it is (+when it was released), okay?
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Post 05 Aug 2008, 00:49

Re: Another enormous post...

Litude wrote:Heh, it's not that old English though :D

I know. I will show my friend the TSK messages/briefings so he has an idea of how much old English we want. The main reason why I want to ask him is because of some grammar. I'm not sure what the difference between thy and thine is and I think he'll know that. Also, I think I might have conjugated some of the verbs wrongly (like doth and shouldst) so I'll make sure that they are correct. He's coming to sleep over here next Tuesday, so I'll ask him then. (that'll be after the next beta release)

Litude wrote:Noticed a slight error in this though. It should be "doth make its way" (not it's), right?

Yes, it should. Just because I speak English nativally doesn't mean I don't make typos. :wink: "It's" is defiantly wrong, as that means "it is" or "it has". So change it to "doth make its way"

Litude wrote:Okay. No, I don't have any suggestion for that later part, I guess that might work.

I'll revisit that string after the next beta, and see if I can think of a better version.

Litude wrote:I'll change the version number to 1.58 SR3 B and then change the copyright text (bottom) to say which beta it is (+when it was released), okay?

Yeah, fine. That would be a good idea, although it will be more work for you. (changing the EXE for every release) Just changing the version would be OK for me, although a release date would be nice.
These post are getting smaller....
Lewin.
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Post 07 Aug 2008, 21:08

Posts keep getting shorter? Well, I'll have to do something about that. :twisted:
Just started wondering in what all places this capitalizing rule really should apply. Found a bunch of non-capitalized stuff that I'm curious as to whether it should be capitalized or not.

(Single map menu)
Start map -> Start Map
Back to menu -> Back to Menu

(Resolution selection)
Resolution in game -> ??? (Shouldn't it be in-game or something? And how does the capitalizing go?)
Not available -> Not Available (Should this be changed? Displayed on the resolution button when selecting unsupported resolution)

(Multiplayer)
Select game type -> Select Game Type (Should this be changed too? Displayed when clicking multiplayer game)
Create new Account -> Create New Account (Unused, but if we ever get around to running a new lobby... :D)
Log in -> Log In (Or should it remain as "in" as in is a preposition?)
Enter game -> Enter Game
Create game -> Create Game
Start session -> Start Session
Select session: -> Select Session:
Join game -> Join Game
Search for games -> Search for Games

(Multiplayer maps)
Three continents -> Three Continents
Battle for coal -> Battle for Coal
Border rivers -> Border Rivers
Land of hills -> Land of Hills
Mountainous region -> Mountainous Region
Castle slaughter -> Castle Slaughter
Coastal encounter -> Coastal Encounter
Bridge disaster -> Bridge Disaster

(Single map maps)
Across the desert -> Across the Desert
In a strange land -> In a Strange Land (you don't capitalize "a" or do you?)
Land of the quick river -> Land of the Quick River

(Game menu)
To Selection of buildings -> To Selection of Buildings
To Distribution of wares -> To Distribution of Wares
Go back -> Go Back


Besides those oddities, here are some random suggestions:

Leave Program -> Exit Game(?) (Leave Program sounds quite Engrish to me for use in a game)
Quit -> Back (In the multiplayer menus)
Long shield -> Iron shield (Original German was surprisingly iron shield, why in the world this was called long shield is beyond me)
Fisher's hut -> Fisherman's (Yeah I already suggested Fisherman's hut, but this is here merely to see which one is preferred. Fisherman's would probably follow more closely to the naming standards used in The Shattered Kingdom as Woodcutter's was also called Woodcutter's hut in the German game.
Start attack. -> Start charge attack. (Changing the button to say only charge ended up feeling a bit empty. Charge attack is correct, or is it? :P)
Turn troop left -> Turn troop left. (Never understood why these two buttons lack the full stop?)
Turn troop right -> Turn troop right. (Same sense)
Close window. -> Closes window. (Description for the close button in a received message. Changed to make the description fit with the rest of the button descriptions, check before commenting :D)

Most likely forgot something, but that'll do for now :D
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