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Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:04
by harold
I know I let it die, sorry about that. But I'm back now, or at least that's the plan. And I'm thinking about maybe reviving TKE.. not that I'll promise I'll finish it this time, of course.
But the original motivation doesn't exist anymore. I started TKE because TPR had, in my opinion, too many bugs. But now there's Remake, so we might as well play that, right?
Anyway, the design goals were:
- almost perfect clone of TPR, minus bugs
- maybe some extra's that could be enabled in the mission script (like fog of war)
- make serves a little smarter; some details may appear in an other thread.

It did deviate somewhat from the goals.

So, will the new TKE have fog of war?
Probably not. It's really a nasty thing to implement. Hundreds of lines of codes were dedicated to it in the old TKE, and it was rather buggy, which isn't cool in a project that exists to get rid of bugs.
How about AI-players?
Probably not.. afaik, no one really knows how exactly it worked in TPR, so it would be very hard to make it "sufficiently like TPR", and it's hard in any case.
What's the point of TKE then?
I don't know, unless you consider siege weapons and the town hall major selling points (I don't, personally, but they'll be there because they're in TPR). I think it's interesting, so I'll probably work on it privately anyway, but if you guys have a very good reason for why TKE should be revived (or if you overwhelmingly vote Yes), it'll be more public (moreso than the previous attempt).

Also, TKE is not meant as a direct competitor of Remake. I'm trying to aim at a different niche here - more like vanilla TPR.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:12
by Bence791
I always wanted to try the original game in multiplayer, so you get a 'yes' from me ;)

Though do you have contact with JBSnorro? Maybe you could resurrect him as well and finish the project together.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:17
by harold
I do, but I don't think he'll be back. He's not that interested in KAM anymore afaik and he's busy with other stuff..
Other people may be welcome though. Maybe.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:17
by Skypper
i have said no, because:
it will be a lot of work and it won't add much new stuff to KaM, if you compare it to the remake
ofc i would like if you finished it, but i think you could spent your time better ;)

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:18
by harold
Well I don't really have anything better to do, afaik..

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:35
by ChrisEggII
Definitely yes. I want to try original game with all TPR stuffs.
Also KaM Remake is a TSK's remake, so TPR's one sounds good for me.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:51
by Krom
I'll just mention that it is an insanely huge amount of work for a one-man team. You should definitely attract a companion. As for our side - our source codes are open and I would be happy to help with any algorithms or format descriptions or whatever you might need :)

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 20:05
by sado1
It's a waste of time to make another project when the other one is... maybe not feature complete, but all the useful features and also some bonus stuff (scripting! :D) is there. I don't even want to know how will the devs surprise us later on. I'm satisfied with the Remake and can't think of any reason to stop playing it in favor of some other project. Also, the community is already too small, and this might potentially divide it... So here goes a no. I'd give a yes for you joining the Remake team though, coders are too rare in this community :(

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 20:06
by harold
Cool, thanks Krom.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 20:10
by Ben
In many cases, competition makes better products. In this case; however, I believe will be an exception. In the end, The Remake will be what Krom and Lewin want it to be, and The Kingdom Expanded will be what Harold wants it to be. Both will likely be mostly bug-free (Remake is already almost perfect) and have many features that people will like. However, our small community will just be split, and the decreased size will discourage new players. The Remake was the best thing to ever happen to KaM. The Kingdom Expanded will-- I'm sorry to say-- be the exact opposite.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 20:20
by harold
Maybe. I would expect that, instead of splitting, everyone would continue to play Remake.
And maybe a couple of people would also play TKE.
And that's if it's ever finished anyway..

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 20:25
by pawel95
Ben wrote:The Kingdom Expanded will-- I'm sorry to say-- be the exact opposite.


No. I think you phrased your mind a bit wrong. We never know if Krom and Lewin won´t stop working at the remake in 1 week and harold will just make a better one. It´s not fair to say right now that it would be "the exact opposite" unless the remake team also has still some meters to go(balance..). Everything can happen :P

Well I don´t know the exact relationship between you,harold and the Remake team TODAY, so it would be really better to have a small talk. Maybe the Remake team needs some help. Maybe you will really go for your 100% own project and the remake team can help you a bit(like krom said). That´s finaly your decision. I don´t know if I wouldn´t play TKE just because some changes in the remake arent 1by1 with tpr, but that doesn´t mean that it´s worth. So think well about it :lol:

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 04:47
by Krom
The main reason behind Remake was self-learning. The same could and should apply to TKE I believe. First of all you make/revive the project for yourself (entertainment, experience, satisfaction, etc.). When you are on that track you will see how it goes.

We always welcome new people in Remakes team, but I doubt Harold will choose that simply because Remake is in Delphi and learning Delphi is doubtfully a good investment of time these days (yet it evolves, I just ran a demo app from Delphi XE5 on my Android just yesterdays evening with practically 0 effort).

@Pawel: We don't have plans to stop Remake development. Judging from my previous experience with WR tools, when those plans appear it will take ~1.5 years till the project is abandoned.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 07:42
by dicsoupcan
Well if TKE will be a remake of TPR only then i se no problems,but if it has multiplayer support then the community might get divided since there are a lot of town hall fans. Even when it is not intended, it shall get a little bit competitive.

But in the end you are the one who decides to revive it or not, it is not a choice we can make.

Re: Should TKE be revived?

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 07:59
by T*AnTi-V!RuZz
harold wrote:Well I don't really have anything better to do, afaik..


harold wrote:And that's if it's ever finished anyway..


You know, apart from what I think of the idea to revive TKE, the quotes above tell me this isn't really going to happen (could be wrong though).

"I don't have anything better to do" is in no way a motivation, imo. Don't think that Krom and Lewin didn't have anything to do for the past 5 years..

The last quote sounds like some sort of protection. I think if you start a project like that, you should be determined to finish it. Just starting
something to see where it ends always ends in 'I don't feel like doing this anymore'.