New unit brainstorm

[EDMatt]

Also why does no one complain about pike man owning a knight even though its much cheaper? and when a barbarian/warrior is proposed as a counter with similar resistance to bows as a pike, against sword fighters, it seems ridiculous?
Its because knight can move faster? but sword fighter will have more resistance than a barbarian, cant see anything wrong there.

Pike is purelly to counter knights, warrior/barbarian is for countering sword fighters.
nothing wrong there.

[Menszu]

Well, if we're talking more about balance than fanfiction now, that let me add my raddical opinion.

I'd love to see cavalry stronger. So knights are not sightly better than sword-fighters, but they cut through them. For example adding them +0,5 HP more, or even 1.
However, pikes and lances will also recive some love, bringing their anti cav bonus even higher.
It's just about making the rock-paper-scisorrs sharper. And might allow for better countering swordsmen, and making both cavalry and pikeman more popular.
I find it interesting for gameplay, not to mention historical fluff.
Just sayin' ; )

[EDMatt]

Well, if we're talking more about balance than fanfiction now, that let me add my raddical opinion.

I'd love to see cavalry stronger. So knights are not sightly better than sword-fighters, but they cut through them. For example adding them +0,5 HP more, or even 1.
However, pikes and lances will also recive some love, bringing their anti cav bonus even higher.
It's just about making the rock-paper-scisorrs sharper. And might allow for better countering swordsmen, and making both cavalry and pikeman more popular.
I find it interesting for gameplay, not to mention historical fluff.
Just sayin' ; )

Jokes aside, The idea sounds radical to me, while the other leaves the balance as is , this one actually tweaks too much.
You don't want to make a certain unit overpowered , and its counter also over powered.

[Menszu]

It's just turning more emphasis on unit diversity.
When 12 knights are obvious to massacrate 20 swordsman loosing max half of the squad, than you might consider bringing around 9 pikeman with you, who could deal with horseman - if they menage to catch them - novadays a far as my observation goes - the swordsman would win the frontal encouter, so why bother with pikeman assiastance. Not to mention forgotten lancers.

About forgotten units, have anybody seen a scout ?

In that opinion I'm not mentioning the ranged units... but belive me, they'll always be there.

Yep, raddical, have to say it once more before mentioning it will result in unleashing any rage : D

[pawel95]

About forgotten units, have anybody seen a scout ?

I have searched one extra for you

[ChrisEggII]

I'm not against new units, for me this is a good idea. This warrior with two-handed sword looks great, only should be smaller. I'm not against new units in barracs, but as I said before: No for barbarian as a regular warrior. Of course, this game has many nonsenses, but why should we make more of them? We can also add UFO, chupacabra, or yeti. But for what?
Maybe should we come back to idea from alfa/beta of KaM and make a barbarian town? There are graphics of buildings, so we know how this should look. If this savage village would be made, I'm totally agree with this idea to school barbarians with double axe, warriors and barbarians with swords.
About balance: pikes win with horses, and lose against swords/axes. This doesn't need any changes. For me this game should be like this, not this
Barbarians should be in a other "level" of units. There are warriors without any armor, with skin armor and with steel armor. Why just don't make a group of barbarians?
Those units should be also available in townhall. Of course if this would be back to the game...

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

You know, I just don't see anything really wrong with swordsmen not having a 'hard' counter. They're just one of the strongest units in the game, together with the knight. So you should fear them. That's imo the whole idea. You're acting as if they're unbeatable, which they are certainly not. And I think that someone that trains swordsmen will not be able to produce as many units as someone with the same skills that chooses different units. It takes longer to produce swordsmen and knights than other units, so of course they are stronger.

I'm not writing off your idea to implement the barbarian, but I don't feel like there's so much wrong with the test release. In fact, I think it's the best 'release' so far and comes very very close to everything being balanced.

[EDMatt]

You know, I just don't see anything really wrong with swordsmen not having a 'hard' counter. They're just one of the strongest units in the game, together with the knight. So you should fear them. That's imo the whole idea. You're acting as if they're unbeatable, which they are certainly not. And I think that someone that trains swordsmen will not be able to produce as many units as someone with the same skills that chooses different units. It takes longer to produce swordsmen and knights than other units, so of course they are stronger.

I'm not writing off your idea to implement the barbarian, but I don't feel like there's so much wrong with the test release. In fact, I think it's the best 'release' so far and comes very very close to everything being balanced.

I have said that this is the closest to prefection countless times, I also applauded Lewin and Krom for their work on this beta, as it is really very close to prefection with all the tools that are given the in the game (units and buildings). I just thought it would be better to vary the strategies more, as of now it is a big mistake not to build sword fighters unless you are using some sort of unfair tactics which i use all the time when i dont go for swords

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

And what do you mean by 'unfair tactics'?

I see what you mean. The thing is, I think Krom and Lewin know they're close to balance perfection now. Adding one or more new unit(s) probably completely destroys that balance. They'd have to balance each unit from scratch again (I think). I think that's one of the reasons, if not THE reason, they're reluctant to your idea.

[Jeronimo]

Hmm... page 7. This is sad and boring, because this thought of "1 new unit to make game perfect" is a lie.
Krom and Dark Lord's comments about infinite whinning about units are actually true, will never end.

Rock Paper Scissors: It's achieved. Every "food chain" has a top, which in this game would be swordman/knight.
Let's stop right here before thinking in the Barbarian... and let's open new doors to solve problems through minimal efforts.

The clue to bring real balance, is in the Production cycles.
What would we do without our KaM Calculator, our dear member Bo!

Guys, it's all about Time. Do you remember that Iron Bar Smithy produces 1 each 25 seconds? (with 5 secs to rest).
He actually is producing Iron bars at extremely high speed... just compare him with Vineyard -> 50 seconds for 1 wine.

My recommendation is adjusting working times for Iron production only.
Wow... I don't want a super nerf making Iron smelter as slow as Fisherman, but at least like Bakery -> 1 Bar each 38 seconds.

I don't know if "Working Animation Time" can be changed making the same sequences take longer... However I DO know that resting time can be modified, for instance default is 5 seconds in most productions... with exceptions like Fisherman taking 1 minute of lazyness.

Designers of the game thought about abusable Fishermans... making their resting times as long as 1 minute, so if someone wanted to abuse this building, he would have to build multiple Fisherhuts (things we see nowadays a lot).

If we change the timing for Iron bar smithy, we will have to test new interesting stuff... for instance we know that nowadays most notable iron production is -> 3 iron mines, 3 iron bars, 2 armoury, 2 workshop (the classic formula).

I'd like to see what would happen with new production cycles.
Less iron units for sure, in which case leather has valuable participation.

Imagine this scenario where with the Iron bars you choose to train Knights, and the opponent goes Lances + Xbows + archers... something more variated due to the less Iron bars available after the 60 PT.

My idea is actually pretty good for all persons involved in this discussion. Simple and with a guaranteed effectiveness.

[EDMatt]

Hmm... page 7. This is sad and boring, because this thought of "1 new unit to make game perfect" is a lie.
Krom and Dark Lord's comments about infinite whinning about units are actually true, will never end.

Rock Paper Scissors: It's achieved. Every "food chain" has a top, which in this game would be swordman/knight.
Let's stop right here before thinking in the Barbarian... and let's open new doors to solve problems through minimal efforts.

The clue to bring real balance, is in the Production cycles.
What would we do without our KaM Calculator, our dear member Bo!

Guys, it's all about Time. Do you remember that Iron Bar Smithy produces 1 each 25 seconds? (with 5 secs to rest).
He actually is producing Iron bars at extremely high speed... just compare him with Vineyard -> 50 seconds for 1 wine.

My recommendation is adjusting working times for Iron production only.
Wow... I don't want a super nerf making Iron smelter as slow as Fisherman, but at least like Bakery -> 1 Bar each 38 seconds.

I don't know if "Working Animation Time" can be changed making the same sequences take longer... However I DO know that resting time can be modified, for instance default is 5 seconds in most productions... with exceptions like Fisherman taking 1 minute of lazyness.

Designers of the game thought about abusable Fishermans... making their resting times as long as 1 minute, so if someone wanted to abuse this building, he would have to build multiple Fisherhuts (things we see nowadays a lot).

If we change the timing for Iron bar smithy, we will have to test new interesting stuff... for instance we know that nowadays most notable iron production is -> 3 iron mines, 3 iron bars, 2 armoury, 2 workshop (the classic formula).

I'd like to see what would happen with new production cycles.
Less iron units for sure, in which case leather has valuable participation.

Imagine this scenario where with the Iron bars you choose to train Knights, and the opponent goes Lances + Xbows + archers... something more variated due to the less Iron bars available after the 60 PT.

My idea is actually pretty good for all persons involved in this discussion. Simple and with a guaranteed effectiveness.

No offence, but you sound like an ignorant *cut* in your post, especially since you don't perticipate much at all in the beta release games

!	MODBREAK: Mind your language

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

*long story*

God no.

[ChrisEggII]

So he doesn't know anything about a game, because he didn't play in Test Release... yeah, great logic.

!	MODBREAK: Mind your language

Yeah, you were right, moderators work perfect.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Yeah, you were right, moderators work perfect.

Got something to say?

[ChrisEggII]

No, I just praise your work. This is response to last post in this topic.