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New building and possible units

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The Dark Lord

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Post 22 Jul 2012, 16:30

Re: New building and possible units

A small layer of snow can easily stay on roofs like that. Only when we're talking of large amounts it might fall down. And I meant scattered across the roof, revealing the roof here and there at random places.
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Krom

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Post 22 Jul 2012, 17:00

Re: New building and possible units

Another trick is to leave more snow on north side (where sun shines the least) and/or where wind cant blow it off.
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Piko

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Post 22 Jul 2012, 17:27

Re: New building and possible units

This snow on warehouse don't look really goood. :S Maybe try to make snow on inn's roof? This propably is easier.
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EDMatt

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Post 22 Jul 2012, 20:49

Re: New building and possible units

No, just keep playing around with it, youll get it eventually, make it natural, put snow in gaps of the rocks there and here, mix it up .
another good idea is to see how other games do it, get inspiration!

Also the way you filled in the colours are slightly off to my eye , have a look at how the pros do it
http://forums.themanaworld.org/download ... hp?id=4829

Let me elaborate on my statement.
On your last update the snow looks much too flat as oppose to natural snow which is rather round and soft.
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Krom

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Post 23 Jul 2012, 05:08

Re: New building and possible units

I agree with EdMatt, keep on working to get a result! :)
Both practice and good references are important.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Piko

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 08:46

Re: New building and possible units

Robber going right animations are done.
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I have a question here - how fast units move in KaM Remake? How much pixels/frame? My animations don't look good here, but much of them are militia's animations exported from game, so this is strange that they look ugly here. I would make this animations on game background, there it propably will look better.
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EDMatt

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 11:51

Re: New building and possible units

Piko wrote:Robber going right animations are done.
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I have a question here - how fast units move in KaM Remake? How much pixels/frame? My animations don't look good here, but much of them are militia's animations exported from game, so this is strange that they look ugly here. I would make this animations on game background, there it propably will look better.


Why give the robber an axe if he is not going to be using it?
if he is, then you should plan on doing the attack animation, it could be tricky.
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Roses are red
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I.G. is blessed
To be the BEST!!
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Piko

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 12:35

Re: New building and possible units

He would attack, but only with empty sack. He also wouldn't attack citizens without command for it (other units do).
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Da Revolution

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 12:38

Re: New building and possible units

I shouldn't let him attack at all
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Piko

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 13:01

Re: New building and possible units

Bandits, whose can't attack would look funny. :) And if they wouldn't attack, I have to delete his axe, then give his sack to right hand (now he have it in left hand), and it will be much more work than with make attack animations. :P

EDIT: If You mean that they are weak and easy to kill - You propably are right. :P
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Da Revolution

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Post 25 Jul 2012, 13:08

Re: New building and possible units

You don't have to remove the axe then but they just cant attack. You also called it robbers earlier, robbers don't have to attack
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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Garnu_Thorn

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Post 26 Jul 2012, 04:08

Re: New building and possible units

HellRacer wrote:It will look something like this, maybe?
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Quite frankly I think "snow" is being stressed too much. It shouldn't be too much an effect of snow cover, as there are other water manifestations than just accumulation of flakes. And it could add to detail to not just what's on the roof, but what is growing from it. ICE. Where snow can't collect, ice can easily adhere to any porous surface and "grow" on those surfaces. An addition of icicles can add a great effect to how cold is is in semi arctic areas in growth on buildings, without graphic obstructing addition. If it isn't snow on the roof, it is shiny ice, especially with good insulation.
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Lewin

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Post 26 Jul 2012, 08:38

Re: New building and possible units

Hey Piko,
We really appreciate your work on the robber/bandit animations, so I hate to tell you that we are unlikely to ever use it in the game :( It's great to see such enthusiasm from our fans, but I don't want you to feel like you are wasting your time.

Krom and I agree, the robber seems like just a feature for the sake of new features, like many many others that have been suggested: tunnellers, horse and carts, mounted archers, knights that charge with lances, merchant in a caravan, archer towers, walls, fog of war, etc. Obviously if we had implemented all of these features the game would be a complete mess right now in terms of balance and playing styles. In my opinion the game would also feel very inconsistent and not much like Knights and Merchants.

Any new feature needs to be very carefully considered, how does it contribute to game style, balance, core themes/ideas, etc. Even the marketplace is not favoured by everyone. We don't want to change the game much from KaM TSK/TPR because we think KaM is already a great game full of diversity and complexity. (how many other games have 29 unique resources, 28 unique houses, 27 unique units?) Throwing in new features just "because we can" will only ruin the game, which in my opinion is already a complete picture without further additions.
We are revitalising the game we love, not redesigning it ;)

We hope you understand our position on this.
Cheers,
Lewin.
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Piko

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Post 26 Jul 2012, 09:59

Re: New building and possible units

I personally think it won't ruin game, because this is only small addition to big game. I think people will play more often 2v2v2, 2v2v2v2, or FFA (attacking enemy will be more benefit), so also will more often play game. This also would make more tactics (defending robbers going from one village to second, preventing enemies from stealing defeated base), and give players chance for play after beign defeated (now enemy kill all serfs, and game is over for defeated player; with robbers, enemy can leave serfs alive, to produce more wares). And game can start be boring, if there wouldn't be new things in it.


I think the best option is to make pool, and community would choose whether they want to robbers in game. But this is only my opinion, do as You want
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Krom

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Post 26 Jul 2012, 10:22

Re: New building and possible units

I agree with Lewin on every word. It's interesting that among other crazy features he mentioned 2 that were brought by myself - walls and FOW. I fell into the same trap as you - I thought what a wonderful additions they are. Easy to implement, no balance impact, just making the game more interesting.

Fact 1 - they are immense amount of work to implement. Not as nearly as much as I could imagine.
Fact 2 - they don't fit that well into the game. They also alter the balance much more than it seems.
Fact 3 - they need certain amount of art assets
Fact 4 - they are much more fitting into KaM world, but still they are out, because of Fact 1 & 2 & 3.

Additions need to be well thought through. The important thing - they should not start as "what if we add A or B, it will be fun". They start with "We want to resolve the problem of players running out of gold and allow mono-product villages" and only then the "What about marketplace" comes in. Market is a solution to a problem. The problem proved to be existing and solution is still polished. Robber does not solves such problem, furthermore it goes against indirect control principle of KaM and also shifts the focus from "fair" wars into "bootleg" wars .. I don't think that fits KaM.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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