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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 14 Dec 2008, 20:48

error? what do u mean? is it possible to let the AI build like they build in mission 16?
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Litude

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King Karolus

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Location: Finland

Post 15 Dec 2008, 10:52

Actually the mission you're talking about is 15. But looking at the map of the mission it seems like the raw materials have been placed quite optimally for the AI to find them.
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 15 Dec 2008, 12:08

nope it's not that... I already tried that a year ago.
It's something else that let the AI know they have to build there.
Also that won't explain the 3 woodcutters and the 6 farms.
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Litude

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King Karolus

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Location: Finland

Post 15 Dec 2008, 12:25

Have you tried putting an autobuild AI anywhere else on the map and checking if it builds 6 farms and 3 wooductters?
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 15 Dec 2008, 23:08

nope
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

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Location: Australia

Post 16 Dec 2008, 07:59

I just finished this mission in my beta testing of SR3, and I noticed how good the AIs were as well.

I then had a look at the script, and I have some theories for why the AI might be doing this.


See, both of the enemies have huge amounts of road, from their storehouses to watchtowers. Perhaps having this road leads the AI into thinking that there is lots of space, so therefore they build lots of buildings. There is also a floating piece of road bellow the green storehouse, (and one above the black) and maybe that makes them "Aim to build something around there". Kind of a weird idea, but it would be easy enough to test. (make a large, open map and an auto build AI with lots of road, some not connected)
Another thing, the AI also has a few buildings to start with, so maybe that gives them some more enthusiasm when building their village. :wink:

Whatever the case, this is very interesting and should be investigated.
Lewin.
P.S. I also used saves in this mission, but the AI continued to build. Aren't they supposed to stop?
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kuba11100

Sword Fighter

Posts: 286

Joined: 16 Jul 2008, 22:00

Location: Poland

Post 16 Dec 2008, 14:00

They stop only after quitting the game EXE and later loading the save.
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 16 Dec 2008, 14:08

OK, so i just moved the mission. mission15.map to mission01.map and smission15.dat to mission1.dat to check if it's not in the core modification to mission 15 alone.
This was not the case... The mission acted exactly the same. So i started investigating the .map file and didnt found anything strange in comparation of the other map files.

So it has to be the script for sure...
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Location: Australia

Post 19 Dec 2008, 05:32

OK, so i just moved the mission. mission15.map to mission01.map and smission15.dat to mission1.dat to check if it's not in the core modification to mission 15 alone.
This was not the case... The mission acted exactly the same. So i started investigating the .map file and didnt found anything strange in comparation of the other map files.

So it has to be the script for sure...
I would like to suggest some more testing before you say that it is definatly not the map:
Try making an empty (all grass) map of the same size with Krom's editor and see if they will act the same. Also see if an auto build AI behaves any differently on a map made with Krom's editor.

Although you are probably right, the script seems most likely. I would suggest removing one thing at a time and seeing what changes. E.g. start by removing all other variables such as the other teams, and tell the auotbuild not to attack you so that you can test for longer. Then start removing parts of their script one at a time. (e.g. remove all military stuff like troops, then remove the watchtowers, then the road to the watchtowers) If they suddenly start behaving like a normal autobuild then you will know what it is that is causing it. (i.e. what ever you last removed)

I would test this my self but I can't be bothered. :wink:
Lewin.
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 20 Dec 2008, 12:30

made that mission with only grass...
The AI just acts the same (exept he doesnt make gold and cole mine etc...)
But still 3 woodcutter and 6 farms.

EDIT:
Just a question... on maps made with krom's editor the AI never builds a cole or gold mine... Are there any bits unwritten in those maps? Cuz it seems to me the original maps should have extra bits written for the AI to let him know he can build there

EDIT2:
Ok, this is incredible... The AI just keeps building, even on a map from krom. The next i gonna try i let every AI on that map autobuild.
Here are 4 savegames from mission 15 (TSK). U should take a look at it!
http://rapidshare.com/files/175156591/Save.rar
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 20 Dec 2008, 13:52

I think i found it
All the AI's got the following syntax:
!SET_AI_PLAYER

But that one that autobuilds got the syntax:
!SET_AI_PLAYER 4

4 is the player number... Gonna try if it's true

EDIT: bah nvm, i made the map so that every AI autobuilds and they all build like the autobuild AI in the original mission...
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 20 Dec 2008, 15:03

Ok i was right the first time but with one little exception...

So this is how it works, it's caused by TPR expansion -_-

KAM TSK
The AI build smarter like i told in posts before...
Whether u use '!SET_AI_PLAYER' or '!SET_AI_PLAYER X' doesn't make a difference. He will always keep building trough the whole level and won't stop until killed

KAM TPR
If u use !SET_AI_PLAYER the AI will only build "1" of each building, like in the single maps. But if u use '!SET_AI_PLAYER X' the AI will keep building and will even survive with non unlimited food supplies (which means more realistic). If u keep playing the game for long time the AI will alse build multiple weapon making buildings!
So this little command can make ur mission a whole lot more interesting!



I hope this is helpfull and for the devs of mission editors, i suggest u to implement this function! xD
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

Posts: 3822

Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

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Location: Australia

Post 21 Dec 2008, 01:32

Well done Nick! I will add this function to the next release of my editor.

@Litude: It might be worth making the AIs in the single missions like this. It would defiantly make it more challenging...


BTW: Will the AI build indefinitely? If you leave it for a few days, what happens? Do they start destroying buildings when they run out of space? (someone said they do...)
Lewin.
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Nick

Crossbowman

Posts: 240

Joined: 09 Jan 2007, 23:00

Post 21 Dec 2008, 12:38

@Litude: It might be worth making the AIs in the single missions like this. It would defiantly make it more challenging...
This is untrue... The AI is alot slower then when he only makes 1 of each building.
Ofcourse you are right if the game lasts longer, then the AI is more challanging.
The part what makes the single mission so damn boring is that they never attack...
BTW: Will the AI build indefinitely? If you leave it for a few days, what happens? Do they start destroying buildings when they run out of space? (someone said they do...)
Lewin.
I will test this when i got some spare time. Would be kinda funny :p
Btw, do u rly think it will last days to test this :p.
I always use cheat engine's speedhack to test stuff. Else it would be too much time consuming.
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Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 21 Dec 2008, 13:14

Just a question... on maps made with krom's editor the AI never builds a cole or gold mine... Are there any bits unwritten in those maps? Cuz it seems to me the original maps should have extra bits written for the AI to let him know he can build there
Yes, KaM Editor doesn't writes proper map footer with resource location bounds. When I have time I will look into it and make Editor write this footer properly.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de

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