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Useless posts about the maps

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thunder

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Post 22 Dec 2016, 23:38

Useless posts about the maps

Hello!
Opened this topic to post here the useless things about the maps. Share your opinions, visions etc. here :mrgreen:
For example like this:
Here is a half pinetree actually which says nothing about the maps. (values of the average disances of resources from the storehouse-dimension is tile.)
pinetree.jpg
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Krom

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Post 24 Dec 2016, 13:02

Re: Useless posts about the maps

I was hoping to see pinetree counts for the maps alongside this pinetree chart ;-)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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thunder

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Post 24 Dec 2016, 18:16

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Do you need these values? I don't really know excel. :mrgreen:
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Ben

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Post 30 Dec 2016, 04:29

Re: Useless posts about the maps

This is actually a pretty interesting chart. How exactly did you calculate the values?

Bonus fact: Rebound being on the top is expected for me. It was an intended part of the design to have close proximity to resources. It seems that I was successful.
#thunderposting #greentornado
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thunder

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Post 30 Dec 2016, 11:49

Re: Useless posts about the maps

How exactly did you calculate the values?

(H) Of course I wrote a script which tells these vaues and more over this.
(H) I wrote a script which using human resources to calculate this.
(H) I thought about Xmastrees and their long-short life, so generated values randomly.
(H) You don't want to know about how :D Brainless timerobber job.
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thunder

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Post 30 Dec 2016, 11:52

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Anyway would be nice to write years next to the maps. Seems under the years the maps started to have shorter and shorter distances (?) . Seems the newer maps're a bit easier, of course way more balanced also.
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Ben

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Post 30 Dec 2016, 23:51

Re: Useless posts about the maps

thunder wrote:
How exactly did you calculate the values?

(H) Of course I wrote a script which tells these vaues and more over this.
(H) I wrote a script which using human resources to calculate this.
(H) I thought about Xmastrees and their long-short life, so generated values randomly.
(H) You don't want to know about how :D Brainless timerobber job.


Sorry Thunder. I can't figure out what you're saying here :l
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thunder

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Post 31 Dec 2016, 02:12

Re: Useless posts about the maps

counted tile by tile on every locs every resources and take the average of them.
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thunder

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Post 09 Mar 2017, 10:41

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Counted the tiles of the nearest route from edge of the storeH to the main resources on everylocations on a map and took the average of these values. Side note :D An 8P map has 48values(tree,stone, iron,gold,fish,coal)
Of course these are not counting with the working distances of the houses so this is why the forest (min 3-4 trees) and stonehill distane is the nearest resource itself.
(Anyway the houseplacement would not change the diference of this pinetree because most of the time enough if place a woodcutter or stonemason next to the storehouse and those can do the job. very few cases are there when it is not enough .like on bBitD loc 1 where the stonehill is very far etc...).
The coalmine was speciel case, there is the placement of the coalmine was the order. Should be totally covered with coaltiles under the coalmine so had to search the shortest ways to storehouse.

An example of the method.
calc.jpg
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thunder

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Post 25 Mar 2017, 19:07

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Lets spam more graphs...
average distances on locs.jpg
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Ben

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Post 25 Mar 2017, 23:16

Re: Useless posts about the maps

That one is pretty interesting. Ideally, all the hexagons would have equal sideA. (Though there is still a lot more to a location than resource distance. Still, interesting :))
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thunder

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Post 26 Mar 2017, 00:04

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Ben wrote:That one is pretty interesting. Ideally, all the hexagons would have equal sideA. (Though there is still a lot more to a location than resource distance. Still, interesting :))

Agree.
It is only the average distances. Should cound with the developing ways. I mean possible the first goldmine is 10 tile furthir than on other locations but possible that 10tile has a forest or stonhill. It1 s hard to measure on exact way. But the average the all of the reasource distance already something what could be a nice jump to a much better value.
I ve been already though about to mix the distances with the avaiable building space. It has intereting graphs too.
will see in the future :wink:
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thunder

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Post 26 Mar 2017, 00:44

Re: Useless posts about the maps

The same but about 8P maps.
avg distance 8pmaps.jpg
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thunder

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Post 26 Mar 2017, 14:54

Re: Useless posts about the maps

If anyboy would practice handling tables then here it is a bunch of numbers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

As usually Have fun!
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thunder

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Post 01 Sep 2017, 21:54

Re: Useless posts about the maps

Hey all,

:P
Another useless post about maps. Today I was pick up one of the most balanced map in the KaM Remake. Yes, it is Eruption6P by TRB. But now I was checking a map differently from different point of view. From game replays. I was looking after PT armies between 59:50 - 60:00.
Peace time was 60 in every case and the speed setting 1*1* or 1,5*1. (If need can provide the replays, I have only 20 replays only but from the past 2years. 1v1, 2v2 mostly 3v3)

I was decided to make a table with PT barrack weapons and play with the numbers. MAybe we will see something interesting thing on the most balanced map. I'm sure Eruption has higher balance factor than Golden Cliffs or Shadow realm even these maps have huge!

Okay let see what I got from almost 100 PT barrack. Note, these are played with mostly average players like Mexi t, or me myself :mrgreen: nonono I'm trolling, but these games were played by players above EE level by average player. There are some great performanceand some lower too, but eachone tried to produce.
táblázat.jpg

downloadlink for the raw data
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Can see in the table the average values of the PT armies. The values are rounded. Funny thing is the average produced armors (leather jacket+iron armor) is more than the trainable recruits(65-55). But okay, recruits easy catch up production.
What is interesting after PT theoreticaly can make almost 9%more leather troops (30-25) than irontroops, but there is basic rule which says first train the strongest troops in this case the iron troops and then immediately gets more iron troops at PT than leather troops(25-30)
leather iron at PT.jpg


I like the sweets, even like more the cakes :P here is a cake about the average made weapons. What is again very very interesting. Of course the leather jacket and the ironarmor has the largest focus, but ...
All weapons.jpg


but intereting to see that there are 3 weapons less then 2%! pike,lances and xbows. If there would be real rock, paper scissors balance between the units, than why not see that in strategy selections on the most balanced maps? (these replays were saved in the past 2years in releas 6720 and only 3 were played by me)
I even could say only very few players 2-3 trying to force to use troops who using these weapons.
Still interesting to see that the leather jacket and ironarmor have very similar almost 50-50% rates. The average 55recruits tells us at PT only armored troops are trained. Nomilities at PT. (not only scouts are not there... :wink: )

Okay from the table and average values still an interesting one.
leather vs iron.jpg

This picture shows the all made weapons for iron and leather troops and presents them separatedly too only weapons without armors.(AX+BO+LA vs SW+XB+PI).

And at this last comment for the table is what is amaizing is:
EVERY almost 100barrack in 20 different replays had SWORDMAN still the weakest barrack had also minimum 8sword for making them!!(even if that can be knigths too)

Now really seems 1irontroop gets 1leather troop. Of course in the late game it is changing but when is the lategame really starting? :wink: I would offer that 1 iron troops get 2leather troops. More leather or less iron? even we can see the average can not train enough recruits for training all possible troops from the barrack...
lJ-Ia.jpg

The optimal would be for the game if the pt barrack would contains as much leather troops as can defeat or has chance to defeat the entire iron troops. I already would be a bit happier to see 60-40 or rather 65-35% advantage for the leather based troops.

This table could be way more different on 4-5ironmines maps, where are some strange strategies with massive iron also so the leather-iron graph give it a favor for iron.
Eruption is a map where mostly the strageies are based on 3piggies 1stable or 4 piggies+1stable.

From stats what i see is easier to make iron units. Harder to spam mass leather army in PT then making ironunits. Okay the leather troops are mostly from renewable materials and still are enough good in lategame but the lategame sometimes not coming if 10knights per player are there to acting as bow butchers. :mrgreen:

Have a good day!

t
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