Island Kingdoms - New MP map

[godest]

We've certainly played Volcano Valley. The games there can easily lead to a long and terrible stalemate, but your map will probably be even more extreme.
Here's a video showing the frustration of attacking a camper on Volcano Valley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFiOf8LJmfI

why is that? all the bridges combined gives the exact (in some cases) even more room to move troops over to the other side. Have you even tested it or are you just judging it by looking at the zoomed out screenshot?

"Maps like this shouldn't be allowed in the Remake...", im not even going to continue arguing with you Ben, seems like you are a blind hater when it comes to dealing with defences from that comment alone.

[Ben]

I'm sorry that you are offended by my comments. The point I'm trying to explain is that the entrances in Volcano Valley should be larger, or more plenteous (in your case the bridges should be larger).

If someone made a map that you started with no food, no starting trees on the map, no objects or elevation at all, and only a 1 tile wide entrance into the base, would you want this map to be allowed into the remake? Of course not. Obviously, Volcano Valley isn't near that bad, but there certainly are occurrences where certain standards must be met.

You've gotten lots of feedback here (most of it negative, but still...). If you want to improve, I suggest you listen to it, and not become angry at those who are trying to help you.

[godest]

Sorry, did not get that you were the

!	MODBREAK: insult

when it comes to deciding which mapes should be included or not.


That aside, i find it amusing how Cursed ravine is the most played map by far (and it is really camper friendly aswell - with one small entrance for every team) This must really be an itch for you guys O.o

I agree that i can add more details to the map, and i obviously will, but i wont change the core map design, ie making autobahn bridges.

good day sir!

[pawel95]

Vulcano valley? or maybe you just think that its a terrible map aswell?

I think many people agree with that point

Beats me then why so many play it?

You play propably on an other version, right Cowboy?

[Bence791]

Godest, we all see that you feel offended by the comments, but insulting moderators likely ends up in a permanent ban. Please moderate yourself, it will have no good results. You have to make many fixes on your map, even you agree, why do you need to behave like that? People around didn't want to insult you, they wanted to give you tips about it.

[dicsoupcan]

I understand that you want to make a map. I understand that you want to make a good map. I do not understand that you insult everyone who give tips to help you improve your map,and personally i do not like this behaviour. It seems you are quite stubborn but to tell you the truth the map is looking more awfull then my first one.

Normally i playtest maps that i really have certain concerns about just to give feedback, but i really do not want to give this map a chance. especially not after your behaviour here.

all i do is post a replay to show that campers win on this map anyway, just block bridges put mass ranged behind it and you are undefeatable already. In this replay 400 swordsman attack the city and even though i got way more numbers i still lost without having ben to lose many soldiers. sadly this is a scenario that can and WILL happen everytime people play on this, only on smaller scales and towers added, which makes it more campy. So in a summarry the camper wins and games shall never end here.

here is your replay, this is the only feedback i will give and even though it is a harsh post, i feel no shame in posting this. Mods please correct me if i have gone too far.
the modified map

Island Kingdoms prove a point.rar

the replay

Campers always win here.rar

Keep in mind that this is the beta test verion, where shielded units have +1 defense from arrows, making those units way better to use when ranged attackers are in place.

Oh and the part about cursed ravine, the map is not campy by itself, it is the players that make it campy. but even there the entrances are wider then yours. Your map is just designed for camping and there is no other way to win then by camping and abusing the market. no one is going to build over a tiny bridge to get far away resources, especially when they can just use leftover weapons and timber or other resources to trade for what they need.

[Ben]

Godest, if it was more possible to attack a player, this map could really work. Right now, the middle resources really aren't worth anything as it is much better to hide in one's base (and this was hardly your intention, right?). Also, this map could be good for 4v4, because, like in Cursed Ravine, it is possible to cut one part of the team off from the other, so they cannot assist each other.

[Siegfried]

Why do so many people pick on the guy because of his playstyle? The KaM community used to be friendly, behave like you are!

There was much constructive criticism like the tiles, the lines, the amount of resources ... that's the points you should discuss. But rather than that I see some people trying to convince him that their own playstyle is superior to godest's. Why do you do that? If he likes camping games, let him make a map for it. Simple as that.

And that says the person who is probably by far the greatest hater of narrow entrances (and therefore I will never even touch this map).

[Ben]

The problem is that if Godest wanted the middle resources to be important there should be less camping, and people just can't play six-hour games. Most people can't anyway.

Besides, camping is unethical. Why sit around for 6 hours and never attack? Might as well play against AI so you can get up and take a break once in a while.

[dicsoupcan]

Siegfried i partially agree with your point about playstyles, but on the other hand camping is one of the most frustrating things a player can encounter and as ben said not many people are waiting for a game that takes hours to finish. that is also one of the main reasons Lake Wololo is not played anymore since the camper just wins. The map can be a bit campy, but this is camping to the extreme, the attacker has absolutely no chance to actually succeed in his attack if the defender has a few melee troops and mass ranged. then people also build towers around it or block the bridge like in the replay, making games end up in a stalemate. Yes the idea is nice but it contradicts with the map design in my opninion. No one shall build over a tiny bridge to get far away resources while they simply can camp with enough food and trade in the market for gold and iron. If i would ever play this map, which i am sure i won't, i would just make a nice big base and do not get off my island, thus not making sure someone actually wins and thus making the game end in a stalemate. And since most people on the official release camps at least at pt in my experience this map shall turn into a sandbox simcity like game then an actual kam game, making the map not popular.

[Lewin]

If someone did say "Maps like this shouldn't be allowed in the Remake..." then I think that's very harsh and unhelpful. I'm usually the one who decides which maps go into the Remake, and I would include this map if the terrain quality was greatly improved. There's a lot of different skill levels of players who play the KaM Remake and people like different playstyles. Skilled players are not going to enjoy this map because they'll make massive amounts of troops and towers and it will turn into a camping stalemate. But less skilled players who are not able to make so many troops might quite enjoy this map because they can defend across the narrow entrances. We still have maps like Lake Wololo and Volcano Valley in the Remake so people can choose to play those kind of maps if they like.

That said, there's nothing wrong with someone saying "I would not play this map because it would just lead to camping, if you made the bridges wider I would like it" (I agree, I would not play a map like this). There's also nothing wrong with saying "There's no motivation to build across the bridges because there's so many resources within your village area" (I also agree, I don't think anybody would build across the bridges except in a 4-6 hour game). Those things are still both useful feedback.

I think people should be more accepting that there's more than one way to play KaM, especially with less skilled players. This could be a good map for players who haven't played many multiplayer games to learn on, because they will be able to defend and play a longer, less fast paced game, more like it is in singleplayer. People like that are probably a minority of the playerbase, but I certainly think there's room for a few "campy" maps in the KaM Remake.

My biggest criticism of the map would be the terrain quality, it would need to improve significantly before we include it in the Remake:
- Entire map is very flat
- Entire map is very similar, no variation in terrain, lots of big uninteresting grass areas
- Mountains are too smoothly elevated
- etc.
Sado already gave some useful feedback on the terrain, look at his post too.