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Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

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sado1

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Post 02 May 2015, 11:46

Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Polish: Wersja po polsku - http://www.knights.sztab.com/forum/view ... 3269#53269

Note: this tutorial is for non-TeamSpeak people. It is also intended for 60 minute peacetime. But if you can play 60, you can play longer peacetimes too.

General building order. I wrote some timings from a replay to make it easier to understand when to build something.
0min make a school. You MUST use school NON-STOP! Before gold production works, you need to have 30 serfs and 18 builders!
1min block delivery of wares to storehouse, like there:
Image
2min 30sec make a woodcutter and 3 stonemasons
6min make a sawmill and 1 more stonemason. Make a plan for Inn, somewhere near storehouse, but don't make it yet.
9min 1st farm
9min 30sec goldmine
10min coalmine for gold and woodcutter
11min 2nd farm
12min woodcutter
13min gold smelter, woodcutter
14min 3rd farm
15min after you have gold ready, start making builders and serfs again. You need 25 builders (make them first if you have enough serfs for now), and minimum 70 serfs (most people use 80) Don't worry if your serfs are standing still in the middle of peacetime - keep making them, you will soon see they will be needed!
16min ironmine, coalmine and second sawmill. Block wood delivery to storehouse.
17min INN. at that point, you have at least 4-5 working woodcuttters.
18min iron smelter, coalmine. Block stone delivery in storehouse!
19min woodcutter
20min armor smithy, coalmine, woodcutter, fisherman, 4th farm. if Inn isn't working yet then you will have big problems
23min pigfarm, armor smithy, 5th farm
24min pigfarm, iron mine, coalmine
30min iron smelter. you should have at least 6 farms, 3 sawmills and 6-8 woodcutters
Then in no particular order: iron mine, 3 coalmines, iron smelter, gold mine+coalmine, gold smelter, tannery, 3-4 armory workshops, 3 weapon workshops, butcher, maybe mill and bakery if needed, third pigfarm, stables, ... I won't write more, because I don't think it'd help, and it would only get longer and more complicated. If you make the first 30 minutes this way, later on you should do fine.

The rest of time just rush to have iron and leather army. About 20min before PT you need to have second school working. If you didn't make a stable before, it's also the last time to make it, if you want to have about 7 horses on PT. If you don't have a weapon smithy, make two RIGHT NOW. About 17min before PT start making recruits from both schools, and block the delivery of gold to storehouse.

An example screenshot of the resulting base: http://screenshooter.net/102498229/pmbtdvl

A couple of all-around advices:
1. Double roads, and gaps between buildings - don't make them. Your city is supposed to be as small as possible, or else you will have no space later on. Instead, if you have a traffic jam, make shortcuts so serfs can travel around. In case of Storehouse, Inn and Barracks however, you are supposed to leave 1 tile wide gap below the building - those buildings get really crowded.
1a. While we're at it... Road to the barracks will get more crowded if you make it like that
Image
It's easier to get your troops out if your road is one-sided like this:
Image
2. The last moment to build second sawmill is when you have ~15 wood in storehouse. The last moment to build third sawmill is when you have 6 or more woodcutters and you can see they are about to cut what they planted. Fourth sawmill is a good idea usually, but it's possible to make a city with only three.
3. Use the Remake's map editor to look where are your gold, coal, iron and trees. You can also make a "prebuild" (a plan of the city). You can put buildings in the editor by clicking on Image then on Image. Some players try to make full prebuilds (with almost all buildings) but it quickly gets difficult to manage, most people make a prebuild with only school, stonemasons, woodcutters, sawmills, and a few mines. Later on you will have to improvise anyway.
4. NEVER make vineyards, unless it's almost end of peacetime and you have way more wood than your wooden weapon makers need! Vineyards make you have less wood for building, there is no more stupid thing than making wine at start of the game!
5. ALWAYS cut all the trees that you have on the location.
6. Control your builders. Don't make a lot of roads and buildings at the same time. Do it so builders finish road+plan for 1 building then continue making roads for another, and in that time serfs can already deliver wood and stone because 1 building is already waiting for them. Also, if you see you have a few buildings with wood+stone, waiting to be built, then stop making roads and let most of your builders make the buildings first.
7. Usually one building needs one building. What does it mean? One gold/iron smelter needs 1 coalmine and 1 gold/iron mine. One Weapon Workshop needs 1 Sawmill. etc. The exceptions are buildings that work with corn - they need roughly 1,5 of a building (so, 3 swinefarms/stables need 2 farms). Mills can work with 1 farm, since they don't have to be 100% efficient and have little impact on corn economy. Also, 1 butcher and 1 tannery is enough for 2 swinefarms, and almost right for 3 too.
8. If you know a map is problematic with wood (there is not enough trees on the location/they are very very far away), find an empty place without trees for planting woodcutter, and make it at the very start of the game. Woodcutter first cuts most of the trees, and then starts planting new ones, so he needs a LOT of time to make new trees grow if you make him work in an existing forest. However, if you put your woodcutter in an empty space, he will start planting right away - which means you will have lots of trees to cut very soon. Examples of maps that are very hard with wood production: Golden Cliffs, Across the Desert.
9. Make fields BELOW (or on the side of) the farm. Then the farmer has less tiles to walk.
10. Finally, join the community TeamSpeak server: kamts.eu. Most of the top players are playing there, and while it's difficult to get into a game with them right away, they will love to help to make you a better player in quick time. If you're looking for more groups of people to play with, here's the KaM Europe group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1379841882328832/ Also, if you're a Russian player, you might want to join R.A clan, since many of good Russian players are there, and they organize a lot of nice games on their own. Chinese players keep to themselves (we can't play with them because of the ping issues) and it's easy to find them on chinese servers.

Wares distribution:
Iron - 5 for weapon smithy and 5 for armor smithies if probably fine. After peacetime, turn the weapon smithy value to 1, to avoid overspamming swords (which are produced faster than armors/shields) - although if your weapon smithy is closer to coalmines/iron smelter than your armor smithies, then it won't be enough for stopping the sword surplus.
Coal - depends on building placement. Gold production is more important, unless you make your goldsmelters right between iron production and coalmines. Remember: the closest building will get more coal, unless you fix it with low distribution rate to it.
Wood - 1 for Armor Workshop, 5 for Weapon Workshop
Corn - 1-2 Mill, 5 Swinefarm, 3 for Stables (5 if you have a lot of corn)




This tutorial was brought to you by sado. You have permission to post it on other sites, especially if you want to translate it, as long as you paste a link to this topic. I'm waiting for feedback, it's impossible I didn't do any mistakes ;P
Last edited by sado1 on 21 May 2015, 23:20, edited 3 times in total.
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Mex T

Post 02 May 2015, 14:20

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Hey sado,

Thanks for this tutorial! Lots of quality information in it.
Maybe you can post some of your peacetime armies to give an idea of what it should look like?
Look forward to see these!

Mex T
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Mex T

Post 02 May 2015, 14:23

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Just one thing though, you can make farm fields on the side of the farms, it will work properly. Just don't make it on top of the farm.
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thunder

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Post 02 May 2015, 14:36

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

11min gold smelter, 2nd farm

hm...Maybe with the new unlock order yes. But basicly if 2smelters are ready up until 20-21min is okay also.
I would say the smelters be ready up until your starting goldchesths are 2-3left in the storehouse. And as you say the school/-s have to work continously.
Great and colored sample! Nice tutorial! Will you make a tutorial campaing also? (H)
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Ben

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Post 02 May 2015, 18:30

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

The order of which the buildings goes up varies greatly upon map and play style. Sado's is just a general guide meant to help newbies. In my opinion criticism should be kept to the more technical details, such as Mexican's comments about fields being on the side of the farm.

Also, I personally disagree with 5/2 iron bars for armor/weapon smithy. You say that weapon smithy should have less because they work faster, but I think that the opposite is true: Since they work faster, they consume their supply fast; and thus, they should have a larger supply to prevent this.
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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dicsoupcan

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Post 02 May 2015, 18:47

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Ben wrote: Also, I personally disagree that armor smithy should have five iron bars and to iron bars and wet and sm and to iron bars and 2 iron bars in weapon smithy.


this sentence absolutey makes no sense to me.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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The Dark Lord

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Post 02 May 2015, 19:37

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Why would you need to use your school non-stop? If you have serfs doing nothing it is a waste of food. And if you really use your school non-stop you will end up with 100 or more serfs, which is very unnecessary.
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sado1

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Post 02 May 2015, 20:56

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

My guide was written with all maps in mind, however the timings are based on a performance off a Rich Land loc3 game. Obviously I didn't care about the old building order; but let's face it - what is the difference? I don't want to bring the old vs new topic up (not the place for it), but from tutorial's point of view, the only changes are the amount of wood (if I cared about that, I'd have to make a separate tutorial for every low wood/food/no iron/whatever loc) and stone; and also the fact that you don't have to make the inn later, just open it instead.

The Dark Lord wrote:Why would you need to use your school non-stop? If you have serfs doing nothing it is a waste of food. And if you really use your school non-stop you will end up with 100 or more serfs, which is very unnecessary.

That is why I said that most people would use 70-80 serfs overall. There is a period when you stop making serfs for a while (provided you didn't have any problems with gold or something) before you make recruits. Of course it is possible to continue making servants and make as much as over 100 of them (hello Jeronimo! xD), but almost nobody plays like that. So to conclude, I didn't mean non-stop literally :P

@thunder - a tutorial campaign is something I dreamed of for long time, but I dreamed about somebody else doing it xD Ah well, I'll think about that, but it wouldn't be that hard to do - you'd need a permission from a few mapmakers to include their multiplayer maps, and put some work into "story" (the tutorial part)

@Ben you're right, I'll delete the iron part because I didn't type exactly what I wanted to.
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KaMRemakefan

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Post 02 May 2015, 20:56

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Great job Sado! :D

I hope it will help me to slowly delete my handicap building... :|

~ Rutger ~
KaMRemakefan is a fanchannel on youtube of the game KaM Remake,
click on the link here below to go the fanchannel.

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Leeuwgie

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Post 02 May 2015, 21:18

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Just some advice from my point of view:

No need to block timber after 2nd sawmill, 3 is better on most locs unless you can affort it (cause its a small loc and you keep it small).
Goldsmelter on 11 mins is impossible/not needed on 95% of all locs. What thunder says is more realistic. Basic rule is to have it up before the inn.
1 tanner/butcher will do the job for 3 piggies unless you're making them too late.
No need to go for all trees on your loc, it will ruin effeciency if its too far. Better plant a forest nearby if possible.
But most important is to develop your unique style (by building freestyle), adept to your location and (try to) make sure buildings are filled with resources constantly.

But overall this is a good guide for beginners. Good job.
No matter what, always keep smiling ~ Bassie (from Bassie & Adriaan)
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Ben

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Post 03 May 2015, 02:18

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

dicsoupcan wrote:
Ben wrote: Also, I personally disagree that armor smithy should have five iron bars and to iron bars and wet and sm and to iron bars and 2 iron bars in weapon smithy.


this sentence absolutey makes no sense to me.


Sorry, I was using voice command! I'll fix it.

The Dark Lord wrote:Why would you need to use your school non-stop? If you have serfs doing nothing it is a waste of food. And if you really use your school non-stop you will end up with 100 or more serfs, which is very unnecessary.

I used to feel the same way as you, but I quickly learned that this tip of sado's is actually right. There are three points in building your base where the amount of serfs you need goes up dramatically:
1) Building your inn. After the inn goes up, you need 20 deliveries to be made! This requires a lot of serf time. If you don't have at least 10 idle serfs at this point, your production will likely suffer.
2) Building the barracks. Depending on if your barracks is late or not, you may not need too many idle serfs. Still, you could have up to 10 deliveries needed with reasonable barracks time.
3) Wooden weapon production. Once wooden weapons start being produced, your base is likely finished, and you'll have towers being put up and high-maintenance-quick-working wooden weapon makers running. You'll need to have lots of extra serfs to keep your base running.

Basically, you're way better off having too many serfs than not enough, and unless your second school is very early (around 36:00) you'll have a hard time catching up with serfs; especially while making recruits. Most bases require a minimum of 74 serfs, and you won't likely surpass this amount by much if your school works non-stop the whole game.

Also, sado, your times are pretty unrealistic on some parts. 11 minute goldsmelter? What the heck? I've never seen it before. You can never have gold production too early, but this is impossible most of the time!
20 minute armor smithy? I see it on some locations...such as loc 5 BitD, but it's not needed this early for sure. Now, personally, I like having it up around 29:00 minutes so I can have my wonderful 6-farms-before-30:00, but having it at 24:00/25:00 is fine, too.
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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pawel95

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Post 03 May 2015, 13:36

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Very nice that someone made a "tutorial" for playing KaM Multiplayer in 2015 :P
Experienced players know that it all depends on the map/strategy etc. if you really gonna build houses in a certain order. Same goes for blocking wares, I remember good games from me, where I never blocked things like wood in the whole game. It really depends, some players block stone from the beginning which isn´t correct in my opinion.

So, this tutorial is the first step to understand what you´re making wrong all the time. If you understand the "basics" and get experience (Will I run out of wood, if I add one more building now?) (Will I get starvation if I don´t build a bakery now?) by playing many games, you will be able to play versus everyone (H)
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dicsoupcan

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Post 03 May 2015, 14:54

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Ben you are right about the serf needs goes up dramatically, but you forgot about one of them and that is when your iron production starts to get working, all that coal and iron that needs to be delivered needs a lot of serfs.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Email

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Post 11 May 2015, 18:16

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Thank you very much! This really helps for continuing my journey to become an [EE] European Elite :)!
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vovets1

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Post 12 May 2015, 13:00

Re: Complete Remake multiplayer building tutorial

Good tutorial. But really, some timings seem strange enough.

But I'll translate it into russian anyway =)
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