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New tactics in KaM???

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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Post 10 Apr 2015, 03:46

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Ben wrote:Nah man this is a joke, right? It can't be even remotely good :D (except maybe for a rush, but isn't 35-40 knights better anyway?)

Not to diminish what you did here. This is a very hard strategy, but it's just not worth the effort :P

Knights all the way of course. :) But just imagine this tactic played in leather locs of certain maps.
Team tactic where leather player rushes with +50 scouts and the others send all swordmen and archers there... gg.
KaM Skill Level: Jeronimo
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

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Post 10 Apr 2015, 12:10

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Jeronimo wrote:
Ben wrote:Nah man this is a joke, right? It can't be even remotely good :D (except maybe for a rush, but isn't 35-40 knights better anyway?)

Not to diminish what you did here. This is a very hard strategy, but it's just not worth the effort :P

Knights all the way of course. :) But just imagine this tactic played in leather locs of certain maps.
Team tactic where leather player rushes with +50 scouts and the others send all swordmen and archers there... gg.


well not trying to defend mass scouts, but mass scouts do have the advantage of being able to be massed easier once production goes.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Killer!!

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 10 Apr 2015, 18:31

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Hello,

Today I tried something for fun on Across the Desert, never played an other location than 5 on this map so just did it to try to get more familiar with the map.

I used a strategy i saw Bludmaster trying out last week, he probably uses this a lot in games lately and i liked the way he plays, so tried it as well :P

I tried to go for like 20 swords and then switch over to pikes, along with many bowman and a couple of axefighters, no horses though (only 1 for scouting)

I post this replay here becuase i want to know if this gamestyle is effective nowadays since knights are used by every player :P

Anyway, enjoy! :D
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Tiank

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Post 10 Apr 2015, 20:32

Re: New tactics in KaM???

I saw Blud doing it in Ben's shoutcast, in that 1v1 game, I liked it as well :). I think it's pretty effective, player with horses will think twice before trying to ram you ;)
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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Ben

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Prince Lothar

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Post 11 Apr 2015, 02:14

Re: New tactics in KaM???

If you aren't using horses, I think it is wise to make pikes. Elsewise you have no real counter to enemy cavalry ;)
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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Esthlos

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Post 18 Apr 2015, 23:50

Re: New tactics in KaM???

I've been wondering if going exclusively for Loaves (its production line is way more efficient than the Sausages' one as far as feeding goes), skipping Leather, and then using Crossbowmen + Militia would work in the Remake.

So I've run a few tests against a Swords+Bows combo, but the results aren't really helpful... what is your experience about this strategy?

Here the test results:
(As usual I've used the Market's prices to balance them, so this is a factor to account for)

The two armies:
Army 1 (3337 Corn):
    Front: 45 Sword Fighters (1665 Corn); 15 columns formation
    Back: 88 Bowmen (1672 Corn); 29 columns formation

Army 2 (3325 Corn):
    Front: 151 Militia (1661 Corn); 50 columns formation
    Back: 64 Crossbowmen (1664 Corn); 21 columns formation

With these formations, army 2 wins 264 out of 500 battles (53%)

If instead every troop is limited to 20 columns max formations, army 2 wins 99 out of 500 battles (20%)

By these result this strategy looks significantly weaker than Swords+Bows, but I still think it has a strong potential... my problem is, I have no idea how to realize this potential (if there even actually is one :P ).
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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Soldado con espada

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Post 18 Apr 2015, 23:59

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Esthlos wrote:By these result this strategy looks significantly weaker than Swords+Bows, but I still think it has a strong potential... my problem is, I have no idea how to realize this potential (if there even actually is one :P ).

Well, it seems to me that you can only use this kind of strategy in very-open-field battles where you don't expect your militias to get stuck and idle while being shot. That is to say... when nunbers really count.

I imagine this comment is very simplistic, but I'm just a beginner :mrgreen:
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Ben

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Prince Lothar

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Post 19 Apr 2015, 03:35

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Peacetime is very important when picking a strategy. How much peacetime did you have in mind?
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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Esthlos

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Post 19 Apr 2015, 07:43

Re: New tactics in KaM???

To clarify, I think it has potential for example because of what The Dark Lord noted here: in theory, even in tight spaces you can keep gradually throwing all your Militia in the front and then retreat your valuable Crossbowmen while the last Militia are falling, covering your retreat.
But I'm not sure whether this would kill enough Sword Fighters for the Militia+Crossbowmen strategy to eventually come out on top or not...

As you may have noticed, there are a lot of "ifs"... if you can flank the enemy, if you can save your Crossbowmen by retreating, if you can keep the Militia flowing, if you do enough damage to the enemy front line... this may work.
Yet I do not know how well would it work, if it would be worth the effort, and if there are other "ifs" or options I haven't thought about.

Don't get me wrong, "ifs" are a good thing: they symbolize the chance for each player's skill to impact the course of the game.
Sadly though, those "ifs" also make it difficult to appropriately estimate the validity of the strategy. :(

Ben wrote:Peacetime is very important when picking a strategy. How much peacetime did you have in mind?

60, 90, and 120.

Keep in mind that I'm trying to find out when would this strategy be good. :wink:
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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thunder

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Post 19 Apr 2015, 08:23

Re: New tactics in KaM???

I remember when I lost 70milities vs 8knights without a single kills on an opened battlefield. And there wasnt snipers.
At this moment i dont beilive in the mass milities.
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Tiank

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Post 19 Apr 2015, 08:50

Re: New tactics in KaM???

I don't think mass Militia+Xbows is useful or effective tactic. You need to be really lucky to catch the enemy with your militia in a place, where your xbows can do the job, but if you fail, you are vulnerable. Also, economy needs a lot of work to run effiecently, I noticed, that wihtout sausages it's really hard to set up and maintain your food economy. It's okay if there's plenty of fish, but then you need to rely only on bread and vine combo later on, so you need to focus on making these early on (it's especially hard and not worth it on 60 PT).
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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Killer!!

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 19 Apr 2015, 09:12

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Well imo this can work, but only if you make some extra pikes.
Let's say you would have 50 xbows at pt + 70 militia for example.
I think it would be better to have 35 xbows 15 piked and 70 militia, just to have a bit more meatshield and/or just go xbows only but then focus only on pikes after pt.

If you want a replay of a build like this, I uploaded one here at this topic somewhere, it's only building though, so it doesn't say anything about the fighting quality of this army type
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Ben

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Prince Lothar

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Post 19 Apr 2015, 09:12

Re: New tactics in KaM???

Tiank's post is spot-on. Actually, sausage may be too potent or bread too weak, as the speed of a butcher combined with added leather makes going for bread seem...pointless.

Militia die like flies and you need so much gold to make them. Xbows are also weak. Both these units could use a boost in their power.
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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Killer!!

Sword Fighter

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 19 Apr 2015, 09:20

Re: New tactics in KaM???

What I remeber of the game I played to try this out, I had absolutely no problems with food.
I even was playing on loc3 of willy so I had no acces to fish
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Tiank

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 19 Apr 2015, 09:36

Re: New tactics in KaM???

What I meant Killer, that there could be problems with food later on, while with sausage support you don't have to worry about food in late game. Of course, you make Bakeries and Vine Farms after 60 PT or on longer games because it's worth it.

Also, it depends on map. When there's little building space, going for bread is not worth it, as you are wasting space filling it with bakeries and vine farms. If you go for Swine Farms, you gain the best (nutriciously) food AND leather.

Ben wrote:Militia die like flies and you need so much gold to make them. Xbows are also weak. Both these units could use a boost in their power.
I don't think they need a boost. They are good in other tasks. Xbows are really good against iron units and for example pikes+xbows could be good counter for swords+bows combo if used right. (Mass) Militia is suprisingly good at holding even the strongest units for some time, which is especially useful in 1v1 games. It's true, they die like flies, but even flies are annoying in larger numbers ;).
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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