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Building Order

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attitude

Farmer

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 13:15

Building Order

I have created a building order according to the website:

http://www.knightsandmerchants.net/walk ... r-strategy

The building order:

• School
• 12 laborers 15 serfs
• Inn
• Double path Inn/School/Store
• 2 (or more) quarries
• Two woodcutters
• One sawmill
• Mind gold (go for coal + gold if you have little)
• 4 farms, 2 mills, 3 bakeries
• 4 vineyards
• 1 Swinefarm, Butcher, tannery
• 1 Weapons workshop & one armory workshop
• Barracks
• Two farms and two swine farms
• 4 woodcutters and 2 sawmills
• 1 weapon workshop
• 2 armory workshop
• (stable + farm)
• Two coal and two iron mines
• 2 Iron smithies
• 2 armor smithies 1 weapon smithy
• Watchtowers

Is this a decent building order, or does someone have some advice on this? There are so many topics about building orders & combinations that I just lost track.
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 13:39

Re: Building Order

that order is outdated for a long time.

we start making a school, then woodcutters then 4 quarries. also we got 3 farms on 2 pigfarms since 2 will not work well enough. we also skip double paths, but block nearly every ware in the storehouse instead. we do not build any mills or vineyards duringat least the first 40/50 minutes of pt. i know i forgot a lot in this but ther eis so much to explain.

you might want to take a look at this, it is still a bit outdated but more accurate then the guide on that site. also timing is everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkdtPWPSUZo
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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attitude

Farmer

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KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 28 Jul 2014, 13:51

Re: Building Order

Of course, a couple of seconds in the beginnen can make a huge difference later in the game. I've played AOEII quite a lot and I saw it there aswell, but the inpact is way bigger there. Once I got the hang of it there, things got a lot easier.

Thanks for the link, I will have a look. If someone has a newer building order, that would be great!
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Tiank

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Knight

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 14:16

Re: Building Order

Here's something I made and should work for you as well. With dicso's video, where timing is shown, I think this should help you.

An example of building order for most maps:
School+roads to quarries and woodcutter's if close
3 quarries+woodcutter's
sawmill+quarry+woodcutter's
Farm+2 woodcutter's+sawmill
Farm+gold mine+coal mine
Farm+Metallurgist's
(Inn at 15 minute)

(quarry)+iron mine+2coal mines
Iron smithy+iron mine+ coal mine
Armor smithy+iron smithy+ coal mine
Armor smithy+iron mine+ coal mine
Iron smithy+Weapon smithy+coal mine

Should be finished at around 30 minutes giving you 30 swords at PT

2 swine farms (when corn is at its 4th stage of growth, when it's a little bit green Image)
2 Farms
Butchery (closest to Inn)+tannery
2 or 3 Armor workshops
Barracks
2 woodcutter's+sawmill
3 weapon workshops 20 minutes before PT
Stable (again, when corn is at 4th stage of growth)
Gold mine+ coal mine
Metallurgist's
2 schools near metallurgist's

Towers 10 minutes before PT ends

Start training recruits 18 minutes before PT ends. Not earlier, cause they will become hungry and go to the Inn.

Always try to make not more than 2-3 building and once. Also, try to manage your builders, so one group is making houses while the other one is making roads to another houses.

About blocking wares. I'm usually blocking everything except of wooden desks, iron ore (saw this tip on shoutcast, thanks Ben!), food and weapons. But most important ware you should block is stone, 4 quarries are enough for the most game, they are like little storehouses for stones :D. Also, if you block gold, you most remember to keep your Metallrugists working all the time and make two schools near them near PT end, so you have good amount of recruits at PT (by good amount I mean around 60-70, which of course depends on what weapons you have). Having weapon delivery unlocked means, that you would have your production going all the time, but when you have Barracks done, a lot of serfs would deliver all this gathered weapon to them, so it would slow your economy a bit, keep that in mind. You can avoid that, by building Barracks earlier.
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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attitude

Farmer

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 14:39

Re: Building Order

Tiank wrote:Here's something [snip] Barracks earlier.


Thanks for your reply! I was really looking for something like this. But let me get this straight:

1. 1 School+roads to quarries and woodcutter's if close
2. 3 quarries 3 woodcutter's
3. 1 sawmill 1 quarry 1 woodcutter's
4. 1 Farm 2 woodcutter's 1 sawmill
5. 1 Farm 1 gold mine 1 coal mine
6. 1 Farm 1 Metallurgist's
7. 15 min: Inn
8. (1 quarry) 1 iron mine 2coal mines
9. 1 Iron smithy 1 iron mine 1 coal mine
10. 1 Armor smithy 1 iron smithy 1 coal mine
11. 1 Armor smithy 1 iron mine 1 coal mine
12. 1 Iron smithy 1 Weapon smithy 1 coal mine
13. 30 mins (30 swords at peace time =60 min?)
14. 2 swine farms (when corn is at its 4th stage of growth, when it's a little bit green
15. 2 Farms
16. 1 Butchery (closest to Inn) 1 tannery
17. 2 or 3 Armor workshops
18. 1 Barracks
19. 2 woodcutter's 1 sawmill
20. 3 weapon workshops (20 minutes before PT)
21. 1 Stable (again, when corn is at 4th stage of growth)
22. 1 Gold mine 1 coal mine
23. Metallurgist's
24. 2 schools near metallurgist's
25. Towers

Summary:
3 school
4(5) quarries
8 woodcutter's
3 sawmill
5 farm
2 gold mine
8 coal mine
2 Metallurgist's
1 Inn
3 iron mine
3 Iron smithy
2 Armor smithy
1 Weapon smithy
2 swine farms
1 butchery
1 tannery
2(3) Armor workshops
1 barrackr
3 weapon workshops
1 stable
x Towers

Al the other tips are usefull aswell. I tend to build large pieces of road at a time, keeping the buildings back (also >3 buildings at the time)

All the other tips were usefull to. I see that my method isn't ideal.

Thanks a lot!
Last edited by attitude on 28 Jul 2014, 14:52, edited 1 time in total.
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pawel95

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Castle Guard Swordsman

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 14:48

Re: Building Order

Well. Good tips. However you can really discuss about the blocking story :P I for example found out that not blocking stone in the first like 20 min may be a good idea. Sometimes if you have enough serfs, there are periods where they haven´t much to do and this way you can make your 5th stonemeason a bit later. Also saw that in some of Romeks cities these days.


Personaly for me, I don´t like such "instructions" because you can find out everytime that there is sth wrong in it or you can do it better on your own. So my tip would be to read these instructions, but don´t follow them really step by step, for example printing it out and having it near to you while you play :lol:
If you train a bit, you do the "timing" things better and better. I never watch if the farmfield are at stage 4 or not, just somewhere at the end XD it also depends how fast this swinefarm will be ready (woodproblems? how many labours? how many other hosues under construction).

I would say: If you get the wood under contol and you can time this very well, you are on a good road. You see all kind of players, even the best ones, to run out of wood sometimes. This way sometimes it may happen that your whole city is quite bad :mrgreen: to say it on a nice way.
Some players also say "counting wood". If you count your wood well and notice the moment, when you 2-3 sawmills will get a huge load of new trunks. Then you can build/spam very fast and make a wonderfull city.

Not sure if I have missed it in any of the insturctions or just noone said it, but about the labours:

If you have enough recources and a good stable city, you can go one step further and increasing the speed of building.
So just as a small number: Most "pro" Players have at least 20 up to 25 (in rare moments also 30) labours in PT. All these labours are needed, so just that you can imagine later on how a big city should look like :P


EDIT: Haven´t watched your how list, but there is at least one mistake in your summary:

8-10 Forester O.K that´s correct
but you need also like 4+ sawmills. 1 sawmill isn´t enough totaly :mrgreen:

Oldschool gamer also made 2 inns from time to time. You can try it and discuss it with other people if it´s worth it or not. 2 schools should be ok imo, sometimes 3 are also ok like just wrote.
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attitude

Farmer

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 14:54

Re: Building Order

I do make enough labours most of the time.

What I miss btw, are Vineyards, Mills, bakerys and fishermans huts. Why aren't they in there? Can my entire city live on 2 swine farms?
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Tiank

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Knight

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Location: Poland

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Post 28 Jul 2014, 15:16

Re: Building Order

pawel95 wrote:However you can really discuss about the blocking story
Of course, that's why what I've wrote is just an example :).

I agree with what Pawel wrote about wood, that's the most important resrouce you should keep an eye on for the most of the game. And of course near PT end you should have 8 woodcutter's and 4 sawmills.

20 builders should be enough for the start, also, try to have 20 builders and around 22-24 serfs before you have your gold production running, then you just aim for 60-70 serfs at the end of PT.

Yeah, I didn't write about Mills, Fisher's, Vine's, cause it really depends on map and amount of starting food and how large your city is... But if you have acces to fish, it's always I good idea to have 1-2 Fisher's to prevent starvation (they are pretty slow, so it's good only as an addition). Also making 2-3 vineyards near PT end is a good idea, but you should keep in mind that vine fields takes wood, which is really important for your weapon production. So you can try to make some vine fields from time to time, wait for them to grow, then build a Vinefarm. Whole city can run on 2 swine farms, but not for long :). So 1 extra farm and 2 mills with 2 bakeries won't hurt ;). I noticed, that it's mostly enough to set corn distribution for 2 for mills, so you can have just one farm to support two mills.

And yeah, for me a 2nd Inn is a good idea, especially if your first one is really far from important production buildings (like Smitties) and pretty close to some food production buildings (Bakeries, Vinefarms, Fisher's, Butchery).
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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pawel95

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Castle Guard Swordsman

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 28 Jul 2014, 15:52

Re: Building Order

attitude wrote:I do make enough labours most of the time.

What I miss btw, are Vineyards, Mills, bakerys and fishermans huts. Why aren't they in there? Can my entire city live on 2 swine farms?



Depends really on the map that you play on and your gamestyle. If you play on a map with low starting food you mostly need at least on bakery additionaly to your 3 swinefarms and the fisherman. Wine is planted mostly if you have a good wood production and some wood left in the storehosue for example, or if you have one bakery, swinefarms and it´s still not enough after PT :P Before PT it´s hard, because you should spend like all your wood for buildings and weapons :D

About the Strategy: If you don´t go for the "normal" City, sure you can skip bakery totaly and spam like 3 fisherman on some certain maps. For example some 2vs2 games (also in the last tournament), if one team decides to rush with Knights only: there is anyway no After-PT game mostly. Either you win or not xd

Oh wait. I have just read in another topic that you got the KaM Remake right now? :D Well then maybe your buildorder was correct XD We are all here talking about the Multiplayer in the Remake :D Just to make it clear, not that you or any other of us get confused now :mrgreen:
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attitude

Farmer

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KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 29 Jul 2014, 06:19

Re: Building Order

Yeah I have the remake now. Going through the campaign (again). But so far everything is getting better.

Is there and overview of the relatio's of the buildings? Like 2 woodcutters means 1 sawmill, etc etc.

Because if I want to make an buildorder myself, I would have to know those things. I could test it, but I've seen a lot of info on this and I don't want to reinvent the wheel for no good reason :P
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Bo_co

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Woodcutter

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Post 29 Jul 2014, 14:36

Re: Building Order

Paweł has right, there is no "building order" in remake. It depends of place, strategy, map, but especially of strategy (types: "horserush";"mass iron"; "mass leather" ; standard".
Any way, every time you have to use your brain :) before you start the game.


But...

Relations ---> this is very good question !!! i was surpsise that the new"bie" have asked about such things.
so..

II - second important thing
Best relations:

-2 woodcuters - 1 sawmill
-1 sawmill - 1 wood workshop or 2 armorer (shields)
-1/2 farm - mill
-1pigfarm - 3/2 farm
-1 stable - 2 farms
-1 mill - 3/2 bakery (still can work even 1 mill - 2 bakery,it depends of charging the mill)

I- first important thing "times"

Do it will work, i mean the "city", depends of "times". Actually, the most important thing during development.
But here would appear my request,
Last edited by Bo_co on 29 Jul 2014, 14:53, edited 6 times in total.
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attitude

Farmer

Posts: 24

Joined: 27 Jul 2014, 21:05

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 29 Jul 2014, 14:37

Re: Building Order

Ah wait Now I get what he meant. My building order might be good for the original, but not for the remake.

Well I will play the remake from now on, so thanks anyways!
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Bo_co

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Woodcutter

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Post 29 Jul 2014, 14:47

Re: Building Order

Could find out "times" you've seen during games in remake ? :) i just want to know, what first time playing guys are thinking about it.
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Tiank

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Knight

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Location: Poland

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 29 Jul 2014, 15:12

Re: Building Order

Bo_co wrote:-2 woodcuters - 1 sawmill
-1 sawmill - 1 wood workshop or 2 armorer (shields)
-1/2 farm - mill
-1pigfarm - 3/2 farm
-1 stable - 2 farms
-1 mill - 3/2 bakery (still can work even 1 mill - 2 bakery,it depends of charging the mill)
Also 1 iron smithy=1 weapon/armor smithy (that's probably the most efficent ratio). And 1 iron mine=1 iron smithy.

Also 2-3 swine farms can support 1Tannery and 1 Butcher's. With more than 3 swine farms, you should have another Tannery and Butcher's.
1 tannery can support 2 Armor Workshop (it's probably most efficent then, but you can also have 3 Armor Workshops, so you have leather jackets faster).

Also, something you should know as well, in Remake Farms need around 15 fields to work efficently (However, if you make 16 or 18 it won't hurt :)). Vine farms need 9 vine fileds to work most efficently.
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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attitude

Farmer

Posts: 24

Joined: 27 Jul 2014, 21:05

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 29 Jul 2014, 15:28

Re: Building Order

Bo_co wrote:Could find out "times" you've seen during games in remake ? :) i just want to know, what first time playing guys are thinking about it.


What do you mean.

Thank Tiank! That's really helpful!
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