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Focus points

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Oleg

Lance Carrier

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 00:25

Focus points

Ok well what should you focus on first? A good production rate of weapons, food, or "other" wares (corn, gold, coal, iron, wood, stone, and etc.) Whenever I focus on something I always end up having the other 2 things catch up in MP and campaign. So what would be a good basic setup for multiplayer and all missions?
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Ben

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Prince Lothar

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 01:51

Re: Focus points

No setup works for every map. It largely depends on the location's starting resources, resources available, resources' distance, and what buildings are unlocked from the start. Certain strategies also demand different amounts of resources.
However, I can tell you that gold is very important. If you can get a metallurgist up by 12 minutes, than you're doing good for any location's point-of-view. Corn is another important resource, because it is used for food, armor (through pig skins), and armaments (through horses). An early farm is definitely a good thing. Obviously wood is important, too. I'd say that even small-sized towns require at least six woodcutters if you are not trading for wood. And of course, you need stone to build roads, so depending on how far your resources are and how large a town you are building, consider 3-8 stonemasons (but you don't necessarily have to make them all at the beginning).

Keep in mind that I am not a skilled player. This is pretty basic stuff; though, so it shouldn't be too far off. I still expect the Dark Lord and Revolution to disagree with at least on of my points; though :P
Last edited by Ben on 05 Mar 2013, 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Da Revolution

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 10:28

Re: Focus points

Ben wrote:No setup works for every map. I largely depends on the location's starting resources, resources available, resources' distance, and what buildings are unlocked from the start. Certain strategies also demand different amounts of resources.


This says actually enough. Anyway of course you need to focus on the essential stuff first (stone, wood and gold), without those you can't even reach the other ones. Most of the time you end up in "focusing" on all those wares, but some people might want a large amount of iron while others want lots of leather, so on goes fast iron mines while the other wants a fast farm. Most important will be that you find a balance between those, this way you can keep building and making the types of units you want to have. When you are too slow with some of these aspects of your town you'll have a hard time in multiplayer against certain people.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 11:45

Re: Focus points

I agree with revo here, also keep your builders in mind. Most people in multiplayer have around 20 before gold and betweem 30 and 40 after gold. If you only have 10 builders you will mot be able to build fast.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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FeyBart

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 14:21

Re: Focus points

Wasn't it so, that when you just built your first school house, you should train 4 laborers - 2 serfs each levy, and when you reach 10 laborers, go exclusively serfs?
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Da Revolution

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 15:25

Re: Focus points

FeyBart wrote:Wasn't it so, that when you just built your first school house, you should train 4 laborers - 2 serfs each levy, and when you reach 10 laborers, go exclusively serfs?


Maybe it was like that, but times have changed. I often use 24-26 serves 18-20 builders before my gold runs, but depends a bit on the map.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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Ben

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Prince Lothar

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 16:01

Re: Focus points

This reminds me, back in r4000 (I think that was the name of the build) didn't players make two schools right at the start on many maps? What ever happened to that strategy?
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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Da Revolution

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 16:33

Re: Focus points

Ben wrote:This reminds me, back in r4000 (I think that was the name of the build) didn't players make two schools right at the start on many maps? What ever happened to that strategy?


A few players did this, but you can't trade coal/gold ore to trunks anymore so you'll have wood problems. That tactic is by the way only useful when you start with lots of chests or quite close gold.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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FeyBart

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 18:09

Re: Focus points

Da Revolution wrote:(...)
A few players did this, but you can't trade coal/gold ore to trunks anymore so you'll have wood problems. That tactic is by the way only useful when you start with lots of chests or quite close gold.

Did they disable that? Why?
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Da Revolution

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 18:14

Re: Focus points

FeyBart wrote:Did they disable that? Why?


No, but its just too expensive.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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FeyBart

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 18:57

Re: Focus points

Da Revolution wrote:(...)
No, but its just too expensive.

Ah. Okay.
Nice coffee is always nice.
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FransPhoenix

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The Dukes of Burgundy Clan

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 19:05

Re: Focus points

Seeing that this discussion has focused more on amounts of serfs/builders, I typically see that people who train many builders (more than 25) are usually losing a lot of their time on waiting for the products to arrive and/or not enough serfs overall. With two schools and 25 builders (20 before gold production), I am constantly making serfs and town folks without wasting gold chests (some of which I reserve for recruits build-up later). If you'd ask me, the only constraint on making your town as large and powerful as you need, is formed by the food supply. The 'real' food supply depends on how many farms you can construct after the first 'big boom'. I'm not sure if this term is still in use, but what I mean to say: the second wave of wood (and supply of early-farms) should help you build the farms required for feeding your population. Everything made after that time (third wave and later) will ensure that you will live long-term, but you can no longer prevent the 'inn-run', which stops important parts of your town from working. This can also be seen in towns with only sausage-supply: it goes well at first, but then everybody seems to get hungry at the same time. Of course: you made those people during the 'big boom'. Any comments on my analysis, because doesn't this seem to be a structural problem in most games?
--- No player should have knights without pigs: "Young knights were trained to fight by mounting on piggybacks." ---
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 19:10

Re: Focus points

with more builders you need more serfs yes, and you also need a lot of more wood and stone. But people invest in that(more stonemasons/woodcutters/sawmills) and it is worth investing in it. it does not happen all of a sudden, but the builder amount grows over time. and yes it depends on the amount of food you make. But if you have a good food supply of 1 type of food you need mroe then 1 inn to feed everone yes. With 2 inns you normally can feed your town well, if you have the food to fill it offcourse.
Last edited by dicsoupcan on 21 Feb 2013, 19:33, edited 1 time in total.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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FeyBart

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 19:24

Re: Focus points

FransPhoenix wrote:Seeing that this discussion has focused more on amounts of serfs/builders, I typically see that people who train many builders (more than 25) are usually losing a lot of their time on waiting for the products to arrive and/or not enough serfs overall. With two schools and 25 builders (20 before gold production), I am constantly making serfs and town folks without wasting gold chests (some of which I reserve for recruits build-up later). If you'd ask me, the only constraint on making your town as large and powerful as you need, is formed by the food supply. The 'real' food supply depends on how many farms you can construct after the first 'big boom'. I'm not sure if this term is still in use, but what I mean to say: the second wave of wood (and supply of early-farms) should help you build the farms required for feeding your population. Everything made after that time (third wave and later) will ensure that you will live long-term, but you can no longer prevent the 'inn-run', which stops important parts of your town from working. This can also be seen in towns with only sausage-supply: it goes well at first, but then everybody seems to get hungry at the same time. Of course: you made those people during the 'big boom'. Any comments on my analysis, because doesn't this seem to be a structural problem in most games?

You seem to have quite some knowledge about MP battles. How many matches do you play weekly?
Nice coffee is always nice.
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FransPhoenix

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The Dukes of Burgundy Clan

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Post 21 Feb 2013, 22:20

Re: Focus points

FeyBart wrote:You seem to have quite some knowledge about MP battles. How many matches do you play weekly?

I played about six games a week until recently. Still the released version (no test version for the Dukes yet), but I learned most from looking at replays and that's where I found this structural problem. What I'd like to comment to Dicsoupcan about is the following: a good food supply is always possible to sustain a big city. But can you explain to me how it would be possible to make a sufficient supply of food during the 'big-boom', because this is the point which decides your economy's success at about 70 minutes play time. Or do you deny the existence of the 'big-boom' versus 'inn-run' problem?
--- No player should have knights without pigs: "Young knights were trained to fight by mounting on piggybacks." ---
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