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New type of roads

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thunder

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Knight

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 17:15

New type of roads

Hello!

I watched a video about KP and as I was watching it I got an idea.
This game with the roads always have city structural problem. Mainly in multiplayer mode where the belances are very important.
What do you think about a new type of road?
Dirt Road- The coast of it would be free. The units could walk on it slower than on a stone road, but a bit faster than on any type of terrian.
So the speed would look out like this:
0-> any terrian with 1x speed (ofc only the walkable ones, maybe different terrian with different walkingspeed?) -> Dirt Road with 1,5x speed -> Stone road with 2 speed.

In this logic the moorlands(len) and hard terrians could be slower than normal terrians.
This could make the game more funnier.

Anyway the dirt road cost would be free(maybe the digging time could be longer than at the stone road, because not need to wait for stone).
Pros: almost on any locations the players would have chance to reach further hills easily withouth huge cost. It would give more free minds to building and more variety.
Cons: maybe would make the game overcomplicated and the software side would be longer harder :wink:

Im sorry if this idea was already there.
Any way nice job wth the new game!
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T*AnTi-V!RuZz

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 17:43

Re: New type of roads

Kinda like Banished?
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Esthlos

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 18:50

Re: New type of roads

It would be a middle ground between roads and caravans (can't remember if that's the correct name :$ )... I like this!

Image
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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thunder

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 19:32

Re: New type of roads

similar like this
Screenshot 2016-09-05 21-31-22.jpg
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Krom

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 19:33

Re: New type of roads

I have experimented with free roads around a year ago and I did not like it. There are other cons to "free/cheap" roads, one of which is - players expansion will be more rapid, which is undesireable on smaller maps. Serfs role also diminishes if roads can be built for free (just like fields).

Maybe cheap roads and good roads are the way to go, so that balance of expansion speed is more or less preserved.

All in all this could be thought through, analyzed, tested and balanced I guess, but cannot promise this exact feature will make it into the game.
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Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Esthlos

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Post 05 Sep 2016, 21:41

Re: New type of roads

Krom wrote:players expansion will be more rapid, which is undesireable on smaller maps

Mmm... maybe you could make the free version need much more time to be digged than the normal road, so that it only is convenient when building long sections far from the stones' storage?
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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sado1

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Post 07 Sep 2016, 08:19

Re: New type of roads

This is slightly offtopic, but I'd love to know what are you aiming for, regarding the gameplay pace compared to the Remake. Personally I always had hope that it would be somehow possible to make the new game in a way which would make it possible to play with much shorter peacetime (30?) without speed settings, or without peacetime at all. The reason I'm mentioning it now, is that I noticed how roads are working in KP as opposed to KaM and it seems like building them takes quite an amount of time (which, actually, seems realistic given how big the stones used to make the roads are :P), which might not seem like a big deal, but I'm pretty sure it already slows down the process of making a city quite a bit.

I think that free roads should actually be reasonably fast to make, with a massive slowdown of the serfs walking them being the cost. This would probably allow for very fast expansion at the start, when later on you would simply rebuild the most important roads with stone. This obviously means that a lot less stone will be used in the game, probably bringing the current stonemasons meta of 4-5 to 2-3, without even requiring to build them early enough. I think it might be worth to consider it, and to see what players will do, as there must come a moment when making "free" roads simply doesn't pay off anymore.
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Krom

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Post 07 Sep 2016, 09:10

Re: New type of roads

@Sado: KP is still in Alpha, meaning all the systems (game mechanics, graphics, style, gui, etc.) are being developed and changed. I'm busy packing the game with content (assets, mechanics, and such). That said, for consistent development I keep switching my focus between all parts of the game, rarely touching balance, since change in any part might throw it off wildly. Balancing the game now would be a waste of time. When roadbuilding becomes too noticeable slowdown even for Alpha, I'll just cut it in half and leave like so. Actual balancing will happen during Beta stage.

I do aim for reduced PT, eradication of speedups and more interesting game start. At the moment first 20min of gameplay are boring.

Your suggested plan matches my thinking pretty good. Maybe some next Alpha will have it implemented (yet unbalanced).
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Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Ben

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Post 07 Sep 2016, 18:43

Re: New type of roads

Lots of games use the mechanic of expensive roads providing faster movement. It's a wonderful aspect of game play, but I always thought it was a bit weird that someone can walk faster just because the road he is on is paved. Surely a cart can be pushed more efficiently on paved roads, but walking seems like a stretch. Further, I think it would be interesting if a more creative solution-- something a bit more like KaM-- was formulated.
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The Dark Lord

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Post 07 Sep 2016, 21:52

Re: New type of roads

I like the idea of different road types. It adds to variation in playstyles which is always good. And if you're aiming for fast-paced gameplay, it could be a nice addition for that too. I agree with Ben it doesn't make much sense that people walk faster on paved roads than on dirt roads, but it doesn't bother me all that much.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 10 Sep 2016, 23:14

Re: New type of roads

I know i am late but free roads is a terrible idea. People will use it to build them towards the enemy to get their soldiers there faster.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Krom

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Post 11 Sep 2016, 10:58

Re: New type of roads

How can cheap roads allow players to get their soldiers anywhere faster?
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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dicsoupcan

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Post 16 Sep 2016, 16:21

Re: New type of roads

i was referring to thunder's original idea to make different roads which give more speed boosts.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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SilverWarior

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Post 17 Sep 2016, 12:09

Re: New type of roads

I also like idea of having multiple tiers of roads which would provide different speed boosts but I'm against having of free roads. Why? Because if roads are free people will simply go and cover the whole map with then and thus defeat the main purpose of roads which is organization and planning of future traffic routes.
So higher tiers of roads should cost even more and perhaps only be possible to be built on top of existing ones sort of as an upgrade. These higher tier roads would come useful on larger cities to speed up the main routes.

Now as of improving the current situation where as it seems several people are disappointed by the longer times needed fro building roads.
I noticed that when the road is being build thee request for stone is only made when builder managed to level the ground for road to be built. This of course leads to situation when builders simply spend lots of time just waiting for the stone to be delivered. But on the other hand if you take a look at how orchards are being built it seems that request for wood is issued as soon as builder begins preparing the land which in turn leads for builders to spend les time waiting for resources as they have been sent on their way sooner.
So using same approach when building roads could slightly increase road construction speed and at least give feeling that they aren't built so slow even when the difference might be a second or two since builders won't spend so much time simply waiting for stone.

EDIT: As for those who say that in real life walking on stone roads is not much faster than walking on dirt roads. Well when you are unencumbered there isn't much of a difference. But if you carry full hands of whatever then you will walk much slower on dirt road due to all those uneven parts which would be giving you trouble in keeping good balance. Especially when you are carrying bulky things which prevent you from clearly seeing ground just before you as in such case you wont be able to see when you might step into a hole or perhaps even trip yourself over a stone that is sticking out of the ground.
BTW nicely maintained modern dirt roads a pretty smooth and therefore can't be used for real comparison. Back in the days most dirt roads were not so well maintained as they are today.
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Ben

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Post 17 Sep 2016, 18:23

Re: New type of roads

SilverWarior wrote:EDIT: As for those who say that in real life walking on stone roads is not much faster than walking on dirt roads. Well when you are unencumbered there isn't much of a difference. But if you carry full hands of whatever then you will walk much slower on dirt road due to all those uneven parts which would be giving you trouble in keeping good balance. Especially when you are carrying bulky things which prevent you from clearly seeing ground just before you as in such case you wont be able to see when you might step into a hole or perhaps even trip yourself over a stone that is sticking out of the ground.
BTW nicely maintained modern dirt roads a pretty smooth and therefore can't be used for real comparison. Back in the days most dirt roads were not so well maintained as they are today.


You're not going to convince me with this :) A better argument still is to say that different roads are nice for game depth. That's enough for me :)
Liberté, Égalité, KaM
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