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Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

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Krom

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Post 07 May 2015, 18:14

Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Developing an RTS game is not only the code and art. Game design is a big thing too. I’m subscribed to a lot of newsfeeds from many game related sites and blogs. RTS games are quite rare today. Reading I have stumbled upon a new interesting term, which inspired me to write an article.

Link to the full article: http://www.knightsprovince.com/2015/05/ ... attractor/
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Esthlos

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Knight

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Post 07 May 2015, 18:25

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Interesting!

What about an optional first person view, similarly to Machines?

You play it like an RTS, but in any moment you can switch to directly control one of your units.

Mmmm... on a second thought, it would probably be a lot of work for very little gain.
I'm leaving it here anyway though, just in case.

(P.S. I like playable undead! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )
(P.P.S. I've just been raptured by imagining an Heroes of Might and Magic RTS with KaM's economic complexity :O :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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dicsoupcan

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Post 07 May 2015, 20:20

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

well since you go this road i was actually thinking how a kam/stronghold hybrid would be. instead of buying everything off the market you need to make a production chain, make your castle which can be destroyed by siege weapons. probably unique races with different abilities are always things people like. also like i said try to use hardl used weapons like a morning start, or (flailed) mace, bardiche. including advanced game mechacnics might also help like faith bonusses, some sort of happiness or people needs that increase happiness or decrease them if the player does not fulfill them. for singleplayer you can even make a civilization/total war/kam/stronghold hybrid where you can settle cities, get resources and battle with armies in real time while the ''campaign map'' is turn based. you can do whatever you want :D i personally would love to see a stronghold/kam hybrid though.

even fantasy weapons like this can be unique and amazing: Image
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Post 07 May 2015, 22:19

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

"Age of Empires 2 Conquerors + KaM Remake" hybrid: success guaranteed

Town Centers train villager + labourers, road making, resource deliver from Town Center = (sort mix of Storehouse + School)
Gold chests are the 1 chest = 1 unit, and food will be the sustainer of the civilization (Inn building has techs)

So there will be TECHS, classic KaM basebuild with higher speed in production rates (to hasten gameplay), you can start quicker battles with militia + skirmisher + lances, while adding scouts in Tier 2, etc...
There is no "AGE advancement", but a sort of global "Tech-Tree", like in many RTS games-> think in Rise of Nations where higher techs are progressively more expensive: for example at early-game instead of techrushing "woodcutting level 3", get better "woodcutting level 1" + "farming level 1" + "gold extraction level 1".

Etc2
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Soldado con espada

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Lance Carrier

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Post 08 May 2015, 00:07

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Please, please, please, no fantasy!
I like fantasy, but there is plenty out there :)

Well, I don't know if there is any of these "German-style RTS"s with a fantastic atmosphere...
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RandomLyrics

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Sword Fighter

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Post 08 May 2015, 00:24

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

I think, first of all u have to think about your target players (kids, adults, medival fans, sad-emo people, cosmic freaks, happy people etc) then design based on their needs. I assume that your target is KAM-players-like, so u need kam-like game + extra SA. You have to focus on your main strengths of game ( realistic-depending town building ) , then add new systems/things that will improve a lot gameplay ( simple example like: u dont have to type command: /build Inn, just click Inn button )(thats a great gameplay improve! it speed up control of my town and lowers the level of frustrating :P Now think about other stuff, first about your Target like: "making gameplay less boring" then solve: "new random events: fire/storm/flood" ).
I like Thibmo (main web page comment) ideas:
- Building upgrading > Produces goods faster but costs more then a new building - thats nice, or the houses could get exp regardless of player will, every X minutes house will lvl up ( or the worker will improve his productive skills ).
- Possibility to trade in-between players. - could be nice RPG opportunity in multiplayer.
- Online and/or LAN co-op campaign. - thats my favorite, imo this could be the main strength of game. Co-op kingdoms against the world xD
few ideas:
- multiplayer match should lasts 30-55 min.
- campaign territory based ( saves previous players towns, random attacks, enemy can burn your town and take back territory etc )(think about Total War series).
Theres no need to concern about cosmetic stuff ( orcs, cosmic, horses or mech-horses etc ) in terms of gameplay/design, its just a Color. If orange had red color u will still eat it because its tasty:> but it have to be tasty! It shuld be done as last thing, which color will describe my finished design/game the best? IMO! :> and sry for my bad english :D

Hmm for me the Strange Attractor today is game diffuclt, now all games are so causal...(omitting PvP) Theres no challanges , just click, kill and go forward!

Today every one has internet connection so use it for case of Knight Province i would do the best Co-op Strategic game ( in best i think of fluent gameplay/mechanics etc).
The KaM-like game but with some total wars stuff.
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Esthlos

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Knight

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Post 08 May 2015, 07:32

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

RandomLyrics wrote:I think, first of all u have to think about your target players (kids, adults, medival fans, sad-emo people, cosmic freaks, happy people etc) then design based on their needs.

Well written! This pretty much sums the question up.

Who do you want to attract?
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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Krom

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Post 08 May 2015, 11:36

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

SA is more about a higher level ideas than specific features. Should be expressible in 1 sentence. How would you describe it to a friend of yours who does not play games that often.

@Jeronimo: So what you mean is essentially a KaM+AoE mix?

@RandomLyrics: Target players are good, but at this time I'm a single developer and I'm not thinking of KP as a source of income. KP is a hobby project yet. Hence I'm also interested in something that I will enjoy making. I do like games with indirect control, city-building, alike SimCity or Transport Tycoon Deluxe. Taking away the building part does not sound like a good idea to me.

Coop gameplay sounds good, but is very hard to create without thousands of simultaneously active players. Otherwise how do you find a partner to start coop with?

I wanted to reply to individual ideas, but let's keep this topic more abstract than that )
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Esthlos

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Knight

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Post 08 May 2015, 12:07

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Krom wrote:KP is a hobby project yet. Hence I'm also interested in something that I will enjoy making.

Then it looks like you already have the solution: Knights Province's Strange Attractor should be anything you think you'll enjoy making. :)

What would you like to make?
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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RandomLyrics

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Sword Fighter

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Post 08 May 2015, 13:11

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Krom wrote:Taking away the building part does not sound like a good idea to me.

Hell no! i love building too :D but i feel waste when i have to leave me beautiful town and move on to the next mission and never again come back to my previous town. My point was 'in global meaning' territory based but still the main gameplay is about building and fighting on small/local areas. I know that its kinda hard to mix KaM-style with this-style but its not impossible, just will took a lot of 'thinking about it' time xD( i could help you with that if u r interested, also i could help you with music/sound ( ill prepare some material so u could check) ).
how it could look in KaM:
Image
how it works (battle for middle earth 2):
https://youtu.be/E7FjLV5F5sw

About coop-mode, "u can still play alone if u want" :D

About SA, i think u dont have to add something more, KaM-style is already SA those days. ( imo players who play KaM today are just players from past when they used to play ).
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zombie01

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Pikeman

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Post 08 May 2015, 16:57

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

oooe, that would also be sweet.
campaign for both sides sides of the story.
First you play the "bad guys" and then you play the good guys.

Also, it's almost a must that the whole campaign is single and coop playable.
ok, not a must but I would really like it.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Post 09 May 2015, 07:20

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

@Krom: Don't consider my AoE proposition. I will backup dicsoupcan about an hybrid with Stronghold (tough without fantasy).

[The game like Knights & Merchants, but with a central castle owned by a Lord-> Knights Province]

I remember when my brother itlerion and me said (like 5 years ago) that Stronghold would be twice better if had slow detailed construction processes and houses were resistent enough as in KaM (in Stronghold we disliked the "paper" resistance of buildings, so easy to destroy).

It's easy to stablish analogies between both games... storehouse -> central castle / Lord -> player's avatar in world
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The Dark Lord

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Post 09 May 2015, 08:47

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

What about a Knights and Merchants like Settlers: Heritage of Kings --> Knight's Province. :D
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Krom

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Post 09 May 2015, 09:57

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

@TDL: Which aspect of SettlersV do you like?
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Post 09 May 2015, 10:57

Re: Knights Province: thoughts about Strange Attractor

Good question. I really like the 'RPG' part of it. There are so many NPCs you can talk to/interact with. They can give you advise, warn you for something, help you, give you resources or whatever. It just adds so much to the storyline because you're not just building your town and fighting an enemy with a different colour, but there are many different quests and objectives that make the campaign much more interesting. As you know I also really like the graphics of this game. ;)
But economy-wise KaM is much better.
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