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Knights and Merchants League

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Zatoara

Laborer

Posts: 10

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 14:19

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 07 May 2018, 14:36

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Rey wrote:Looks like a bug at https://www.kamleague.com

F.e. recent game between Shady and XojloDeLL is: Shady (-38) vs XojloDeLL (+38)

While their scores in the main list are:
XojloDeLL 1053 (1 win / 1 game)
Shady 968 (1 lose / 1 game)

So XojloDeLL got actually 53 points, while Shady lose 32.

There should be an error somewhere - either in score at the table on in the recent games table (+/-38)


Sorry for these values, they are infact not correct.
Originally I had set everyones' elo to what they currently had according to Bold's ranking. I thought it would be nice to display recent games so I just added the old games.
But when I calculated the elo change I ran the caluclation with their existing elo, not with the elo they had when they played the game. I didn't have time to go through each game separately, which I probably should have.

E.g. XjoloDeLL had 1053 elo when he played against Shady with 968 elo.
Running this calculation with a kfactor set to 100 will bring the elo gained/lost elo to +-38.
The calculation is correct but the players' elo are wrong. XjoloDeLL didn't have 1053 elo, nor Shady 968. When the game was played XjoloDeLL's elo was 1000 and Shady's 1021.

I am sorry about these values, since none of them are really correct. I will fix them when time allows.
Games from 1st of May will display correct gained/lost elo.
Just to clarify, everyones' elo is correct.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 23:00

Post 14 May 2018, 19:11

Re: Knights and Merchants League

New competitor has arrived!
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KaM Skill Level: Jeronimo
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good shit

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Serf

Posts: 7

Joined: 07 Jun 2015, 19:55

Location: Saint-P

KaM Skill Level: Veteran

Post 19 May 2018, 13:46

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Shady won Regis
Golden Cliffs loc 3 vs 5

Post results here coz Regis cant confirm game status on KaMleague.com (watch screenshot).
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Mixons

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Rogue

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Joined: 21 May 2012, 17:11

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 22 May 2018, 09:09

Re: Knights and Merchants League

I have a question about the rule: "One participant can pick one map only 3 times per month", how you can check if players stick to it and does anyone check it?
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sado1

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Moorbach's Guard

Posts: 1376

Joined: 21 May 2012, 19:13

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 22 May 2018, 11:49

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Mixons wrote:I have a question about the rule: "One participant can pick one map only 3 times per month", how you can check if players stick to it and does anyone check it?

Probably nobody checks it, Theoretically Zatoara could try to have a check of it when someone enters results (wouldn't work before the game though), but I think this rule is basically not possible to be enforced.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

Posts: 693

Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 23:00

Post 22 May 2018, 12:30

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Someone tell Razor to stop picking Shadow Realm for 20th time. :)

I do think however that rule should apply after first Title Game, now we are too advanced (2-3 days left).
Sanctions to Razor (or anyone) would be unfair at this stage, with that rule coming up so late.

But it's someone going to lose 25% of its ELO just for picking a map for 4th time or building +8 towers?
Wouldn't be more accurate losing 10% ELO instead + nullifying game if was won by rulebreaker (keep result if winner is fairplayer)?
KaM Skill Level: Jeronimo
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sado1

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Moorbach's Guard

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Joined: 21 May 2012, 19:13

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 22 May 2018, 13:15

Re: Knights and Merchants League

I don't like this rule, because it's too easy to fail on this one (I didn't even see it before - was it there before? if this is a recent change then it's very bad nobody wrote about it), but it indeed seems like Razor should lose his points. He has a streak of 5 games in a row on Shadow Realm, and (if I count correctly) 11 games on this map in May.

By the way, it'd be very nice if there was a player profile page (after you click on him on the list), where you could see all the games he played.
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Razor

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Barbarian

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Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 23:10

Location: Chile

KaM Skill Level: Expert

Post 22 May 2018, 15:48

Re: Knights and Merchants League

When I started participating in this league. The first thing the person does is read the rules and requirements to join!!! when the league started I always have in my mind to respect the rules and especially the limit of towers, !!that is important!!
Every game I had I made it on different maps to try to play not always the same map more than 2 times.

Then at that moment this new league website appeared and I registered immediately. and again one must read the rules and registration requirements
And I realized that there were several changes in the distribution of instructions and rules. :arrow: Well, if it is, it will be like that

I am not a player who claims and comments for anything. I prefer to be one who watches from the shadows.
if you add this rule of not playing more than 3 times the same map, I will immediately respect that rule added to the website www.kamleague.com

and by the way it's already late to remove the points I've won...

Atte.. ME :D
" There is no peace, "

says the lord,

" for the wicked. "
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sado1

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Moorbach's Guard

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Joined: 21 May 2012, 19:13

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 22 May 2018, 21:37

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Indeed, seems like the rules on the main site don't include the 3 maps rule (which seems like a conscious decision - the list with three rules is there, and the 4th rule is removed)... which is confusing, even despite this topic is linked from there. This is a bit inconsistent and it'd be better to have one set of rules from now on.

edit: I just noticed that the first post was updated numerous times. Guys, you can't update the rules silently like that, do you expect people to check the first post before every game? Please, with every time you edit the rules, make a new post in this topic with the rules updates, and maybe make a news section on the site as well (since that's where players go to now, this is even more important place). And most important - please update the rules on the site.
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Stefan The Great

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Blacksmith

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Joined: 19 Oct 2017, 10:42

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 23 May 2018, 08:10

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Stefan The Great wrote:
Jeronimo wrote:
KaM League wrote:
Another suggestion to improve league. To not overspam 3 maps that all knows to play and have prebuild on them you can add a new rule. If one off players played last 5 games 1 map that is proposed for game he can refuse that map. I don't want to play 3 maps from 8 (and maybe 15-20-30-40 in future). I want to play all maps added in league but players prefer only few because there they have prebuilds and know to play.


Now I popose to you this nice maps that I think deserve to be added: :D
[I don't play here in league just for some point. I Want to play with most skilled players from here, test my armies, ruin things to see what work and not, I want to test my all armies types (You will see why in 1 month) and finally have fun :D. Then after I will play with all players from league and make all my test I will play for results and points. :D That why I insist with more maps and not same maps]

List with good maps:
- Florizon (1vs2) - one of the most popular 1v1 map
- Conquest of Paradise (1vs2) - second at popularity 1v1 map
- Vengeance Rising - (1vs2,1vs3,1vs4,2vs3,2vs4,3vs4) - Very good map. Balanced at resources. You can combine iron spam with leather, only iron spam or normal iron with leather spam, multyple entrance, resources & all you want to need to have a very good game on it.
- Dunes of Death (1vs6, 3vs5, 3vs2, 4vs3, 4vs2) - Very hard map. From Tunder calculation of timber this is one of the hardest map -
Timber resources by location:
Loc1 Loc2 Loc3 Loc4 Loc5 Loc6
33 33 33 33 33 33
- The Battle Range On (5vs4, 6vs3, 1vs2, 5vs2, 4vs1, 4vs2) - very good map, all this variants for locations are in balance side :D
- Western Desert II (3vs6, 1vs4, 2vs5)
- Swan Hill (3vs6, 1vs4, 5vs2)
- Sunrise (1vs2, 1vs3, 1vs4, 2vs3, 2vs4, 3vs4)
- Wilderness (1vs2,1vs4,1vs2,2vs3,2vs4,3vs4) - classic map
- The Last Port (1vs5, 3vs7, 4vs8, 2vs6) Same resources of mines so is balanced. Also is a lot of space for fight :D
- Mesas v3.5 (3vs7, 1vs8, 6vs4,6vs2,5vs4,5vs2) This map have another good thing, that is not huge and this locations are balanced to be played.
- New Horizon (4vs8, 2vs6, 5vs1, 7vs3, 7vs4, 6vs3, 2vs8)
-Voros Aranay (4vs5, 3vs6, 2vs7) - with deal on players for locations 2 and 7 to do't entrance with scouts or rush from locations 8&1. Use just front entrance.
-Cursed Ravine (all locations with all from 1 to 8 and revers) ) - Is overplayed at 90 min games but here is alsmost no played.
or
- Cursed Revine v12. (1vs2,7vs8,5vs4,6vs3)
- Reprisal of Odas - (1vs2,1vs3,1vs4,2vs3,2vs4,3vs4)

To be more clear setup this rule for all maps. 1 player don't have right to use resources from other locations. He must use only his iron, gold, stone mountain resources. For example Shadow Realm - location 2. Can easy go on iron mountain from location 1. With coal is a little hard because is hard to count coal mine but iron is easy to achive.
Costal Expedition have same issue on locations 1&2 , 4&5. There you can easy take extra resources from other location. I don;t talk only at iron and gold but also stones (you can use for stones excenges - corn, iron etc). To avoid clever guys that want to take some extra, setup this rule. Because now anywone can do this and say that is not rule to block this. :D


I post this on 19 Apr 2018, 10:25. + more maps.

Now let's see results of not lisen my tip:
Razor (Name of map + Number of games)
"1. Shadow Realm - 12
2. Eruption - 4
3. Across the Desert II - 2
4. Coastal Expedition Middle Fix - 1 time
5. Defending the Homeland - 1 time
6. Golden Cliffs - 1 time
7. Rebound - 3
8. Riverlands New - 1 time
9. Strange Deja Vu v2.0 - 1 time
"
Snake choose yesterday 2 times same fuking map - Shadow Realm. Was clever :D Choose his best map :D. Ofc, my fault that I broke games but I really don't like this map, even today I setup a new strategy and army type especially for this shit map . :D

P.s. He was better than me in this games. I camped like a bitch but at second game I was think that he will change map. But snake choose same map for me and gg. :D That why chooseing map by played with hight elo is broken rule and must be created some restrictions to not exist abuses.

Now let' see more deep :D

1. Mex T (-30) vs Razor (+30) Shadow Realm Razor 07.05
2. Razor (+27) vs Skeletor (-27) Shadow Realm Razor 14.05
3. Razor (+34) vs kungen (-34) Shadow Realm Razor 17.05
4. Razor (+35) vs Boss (-35) Shadow Realm Razor 17.05
5. Razor (+12) vs Mr. Fu (-12) Shadow Realm Razor 19.05
6. Razor (+24) vs Mixons (-24) Shadow Realm Razor 20.05
7. Razor (+11) vs Jack (-11) Shadow Realm Razor 20.05
8. Razor (+23) vs Mandos (-23) Shadow Realm Razor 21.05
9. Razor (+25) vs Cytla (-25) Shadow Realm Razor 21.05
10. Stefan The Great (-13) vs Razor (+13) Shadow Realm Razor 22.05
11. Razor (+36) vs Stefan The Great (-36) Shadow Realm Razor 22.05
12. Razor (+) vs don artie () Shadow Realm Razor 23.05
Not approved

Last Razor name is who optain victory. Statistics: 12 games, 12 victories His best map from game. :))

That with 3 time / month is very bad. You must add more maps, at last 20-30 and put this rule to be fair:

If a player have hight elo can't chose same map consecutive.
That player can choose same map after 10 games, only when he have hight elo and choose map. If his oponent will choose same map that he played klast game is not a problem. But force players to choose all maps when they have hight elo.

Imediately add this rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not after final, from NOW. Access to final is broken now. I think time must be changed until 31 may so other players have real chance to access in final.

If you let this not only that you sustain a broken league but you want to send in finals 2 players that overplayed maps again and again.

(Don't calculate how much time I played same maps because don't work with me :)) Even I had hight elo I made gifts to players and 80%-90%+ from my games I let players to choose maps, their best locations or bought in same time. Only Gentor refused me and Mr. Fu. In rest all accepted my gifts. In normal way I want to play agains their best armies. Also, with new players I want more balanced game and I know that they will choose their best location and put me on worst :D So in this mode I can test thouse locations with more chances to win :D)

Why is not good that rule with 3 time/ month choose same map?

Let's take Razor example. He is clever. So, will keep his best map for final games. :D Or for final or for last games that qualify in final. :D
Maybe I will do the same and keep my best map for this.

Let's take next player from top 3 rankings
Mex T
1. Eruption 2
2. Rebound 4
3. Shadow Realm 2

Bullet played 7 different map so is not important his stat in this case.

Again, add more F... maps. I'm tired to play same shits maps. Players that play a lot of games will learn this 10 maps.

I put again list, maybe you will add more. Until now you said that only I want more maps. But look here https://www.kamleague.com/recent-games how much time, in past month, players playerd last maps added:

Riverlands New (1vs4, 2vs5, 3vs6)
Dunes of Death v1.2 (1vs6, 2vs4, 2vs5, 3vs4, 3vs5)
Strange Deja Vu v2.0 (1vs4, 2vs5, 2vs6, 3vs5, 3vs6)

I told you from begin that players will have prebuilds and will play again and again same maps. Read again my post and you will see that from begin I asked for more maps.

Don't add +2 maps per month to lern prebuild on them in 1 month. Add more maps from this days.

Another thing. Maybe some programers know how to do. Try to setup a little algoritm for site that will choose random map, random locations for players.

This is really true competitive league and fair. This rules just add to players more powers:

The player with higher elo chooses map.
The player with lower elo then chooses a pair of locations from the list below and pics one of the locations.

Why? Is simple. Player with hight elo will choose always best maps for him where have experience and prebuils.
Player with less points will send his enemy direct in worst location from map and this is unfair.

All players and people that have good thinking know that this is true. Try to think at sistem that will give = chances to all players from league.

Finally I will write again my suggestion. Maybe you will realise that my posts, from begin until now, was to help you. But ofc all of you are prebuilders, like me in some times :)), and you are scared by ruined games.

Only if you add this will be a fair league, where players have equal chances:
1. A player can choose same map after another 10 different maps and only 2 times / month (Ofc, ADD MORE MAPS)
2. Add 20-30 maps (inclusive 1vs1 map like Conquest the Paradise, Florizon; You said that players will learn locations from this map and overplayed them; look at 12 games from razor on same map. In this timming he will played 100 times in 2-3 mohtns on same time until will learn all location perfect).[/color]
3. Add a rule that don't allow to players to take resources from other locations like iron and gold mountains. :D I saw players that in long games go after this resources and make game unbalanced
4. Eliminate this broken rules:
The player with higher elo chooses map. =>> He will choose again and again his best map and this is unfair
The player with lower elo then chooses a pair of locations from the list below and pics one of the locations. => He will choose always his best locations from maps and put enemy on worst location and this is trully unbalance not only that he will play 1000 times same location but he put on worst location from map and will put his oponent in big difficulty
5. Create a system for random map, random locations. I think is easy for thouse who know how to create a little algoritm. For example a page on site, like is on random.org, where one of player enter names of players that will star a game press ready and algoritm will choose for them map and locations.
6. Change date for Title Game.
"The following game for the title will be played between the current title holder and the player with the highest elo earliest at 24.6.2018"

No, let until month will end for example 30 of eatch month, or last day of eatch month. Not all players knows that will be so soon so they didn't had chance to play more and gain points (Was anounced with bigg latters and link some days ago). Why to not create a fair title game from begin? A lot of players, new and old enter from few days in league so we must give them chance for this title game. What they can do in 3 days? Play 10 games / day? Another reason is that until now, because wasn't this rules from up, players made abuses and now rankings are broken.

P.S.

7. Add archive with maps here on forum or on site so all players have posibility to download maps from league. For example I reinstall kam some days agon and I search Across to Desert II to play with simke 20 min until mithrellas vote lobby on his 1vs1 game, come and give that map. So put here, on site or on boght maps for download.

8. Players that are qualified for title must played at last 1 game, until last day of month, with all players from TOP10 rankings, that are until 2 last days of month in Top 10. Because 1 player can play with all players that are under 1000 points or under top 10 and refuse to play with strongest players from top 10. In this mode he can achive first place and go in final without have games with strongest players. :D This is fair? I think not.

For example, Razora complain that is refused by a lot of players. In this mode he will have at last 1 game with top 10 players. :D If you want his place in final kick his beautiful A.S.S. :D don't avoid him.

Now to avoid bad situations, if a player refuse in last week of month to play with one from top 10 he can't enter in title game even is in first position.


Don't think only at some players or you. Make this league fair! With this little improvements you will give = chances to all players from league, not advantages for some specific players!

Peace!
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Zatoara

Laborer

Posts: 10

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 14:19

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 23 May 2018, 10:36

Re: Knights and Merchants League

I will try to keep this post simple.
The map limit rule will be discussed with Bold. Honestly, I see no use for it. If you know a player, who always pick the same map over and over, maybe it is better to not play against him/her at all then. No one forces you to play against them.
Judging by the games yesterday on Shadow Realm (Razor vs StefanTheGreat), Razor had 40 recruits at PT. It was not the map who decided the winner, nor the prebuild.

Having the advantage to pick location in this case seems fair in my opinion. If you don't like a certain map, take the opportunity to learn at least one location.

Furthermore, players do not have time to think about all above mentioned suggestions/rules, we must keep the league simple.

Poke me on TS or Discord if you want a more detailed answer.
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KaM League

Woodcutter

Posts: 19

Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 11:21

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 23 May 2018, 12:38

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Sorry for the conveniece. Official rules is on official site. This topis now has an introductory function. You can also post your games from league here.
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sado1

User avatar

Moorbach's Guard

Posts: 1376

Joined: 21 May 2012, 19:13

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 23 May 2018, 14:38

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Thanks for the clarification guys.
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thunder

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Knight

Posts: 946

Joined: 15 Apr 2012, 12:11

Location: In the Market

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 23 May 2018, 22:34

Re: Knights and Merchants League

If you know a player, who always pick the same map over and over, maybe it is better to not play against him/her at all then. No one forces you to play against them.

Probably Could be easier choose opponent with detailed player stats . Anyway isn't there any rules about a player can not choose opponent over +-100 points Elo difference between them?
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thunder

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 946

Joined: 15 Apr 2012, 12:11

Location: In the Market

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 23 May 2018, 23:02

Re: Knights and Merchants League

Again, add more F... maps. I'm tired to play same shits maps. Players that play a lot of games will learn this 10 maps.

I guess it is the main request of Stefan's long post. :mrgreen:

Gently, but I totally agree. Probably +10 maps are enough also as each map has minimum 6 locs.
My problem is that the actual 10 maps are presenting the same(very similar) gamin style. I mean 3iron mines mostly and average or below average starting food.

There is not a map with locations 2 or 5-6 iron mines, or extremely low food starts. Only one type of location is dominating.
Personally I would add a
-TFF (huge,leather only, iron only),
- TLP (2-3-4-5 mines),
-CF (beauty, uniqe/unordinary locs),
-DoW(huge and mass spams),
- HiH (low food,2mines,low resources, early market),
- Conquest of Paradise/Florizon (Is there 1v1 map on the list???),
- MoMe(Fair, 2ironmines),
- Restoring Pride(not really known, but leather only, iron only and normal loc with fine fighting zone for 1v1),
-Willy (it was not long time ago, but this map is not on a league list??? did we go so far away from original KaM?)
-and an old forgotten one AW (Artic Warfare- good memories from the first 2v2tournament? -the map is offering huge and opened locations with wide entrances, knights only welcomed).

Each of these maps are offering an uniqe or unordinary PT armies with higher chance on 60 PT than the actual list is doing it.

Of course the actual map list is fair, but for those who are playing frequently it can be boring.
I know, Im even not in the league, why is it problem to me? :P
Well I almost joined up also, but not seen similar extreme maps. :?
I hope in the future the server will offer kind of map pooling or random maps for palying (from a list) :wink:
Wish the bests!

t
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