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Winter Tournament 2v2

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wintertournament

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 01:25

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Same with Shadow Realm, you can see the fixed version on TS as well.

Attention: only one day left to register! You have time until 5th February 23:59/11:59pm CET. We will make the drawing procedure on 6th, time yet to be determined. It will likely be streamed live.

Now, what about the teams limit? We had 2 options. One of them was closing the registration on 24th team, but we decided that we wanted to give a chance to everyone that signs up until the deadline. That's why, if we don't have 28 teams, we're going to pick 1, 2 or 3 least known teams from the list (might be a bit harsh criteria, but usually the skill comes along with being recognized as a skilled player) and make them play a qualification phase game against 25th, 26th and 27th registered teams. They will play the games between 6th and 10th February (due to the unusual circumstances, this deadline has a chance of being extended for the teams that really show us that they want to play their game). The winning 3 teams will be added to the groups. However, if we have 28 teams, we're just going to make 7 groups of 4 teams each, so the qualifications will not be needed.
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Ben

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 01:40

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Totally disagree with "least known teams." It is totally biased. This tournament looks very promising, but this is just unacceptable in my opinion.

I say find a better option, like a random draw.
I used to spam this forum so much...
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zaamoot

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 09:09

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

I agree with Ben, because known teams is subjective.
Some teams are known te me, which are not known to the rest of community.
Maybe have some poules with 5 teams, where the teams in the poules are completely random
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wintertournament

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 09:50

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

OK, I see the point, see the next paragraph for the new solution. On an almost unrelated note, we're going to have 2 qualification seeds (I believe that's the correct term, but I doubt everyone knows what it means): in first group there will be 12 (or 14 if we have 7 groups) best teams, in second group the other 12/14 teams. Then we make the drawing for the tournament groups, making sure that there are 2 teams from top player seed, and 2 from the weaker players seed, in each group. I hope you won't say that the choice of the top teams for the seeds is subjective, I think (apart from 2-3 really tough spots with some teams that are almost even to each other) everyone should agree with the seeds we made. Before someone asks - my (sado's) team is in the weaker group :P

As for the qualifications issue, I think we should make a drawing for the 1, 2 or 3 qualification round teams, from the second group. Why not from all of the teams? I think it's normal to put potentially weaker teams through the qualification round. That's how any sports tournament would do it. Of course we don't have ANY statistics that would make the choice of "weaker" teams possible, that's why taking a half of the teams then picking random 3 of them, will probably be most fair approach. I'm waiting for your feedback on that matter.
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vovets1

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 14:48

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Guys, B.L need replace, 988 can't play, and i havent teammate. Pls, remove B.L from team list
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Ben

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 15:39

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

As for the qualifications issue, I think we should make a drawing for the 1, 2 or 3 qualification round teams, from the second group. Why not from all of the teams? I think it's normal to put potentially weaker teams through the qualification round. That's how any sports tournament would do it. Of course we don't have ANY statistics that would make the choice of "weaker" teams possible, that's why taking a half of the teams then picking random 3 of them, will probably be most fair approach. I'm waiting for your feedback on that matter.
No, just draw from all the teams. You have no proof or method of objectively determining who the weaker teams are. For example, these unknown teams could potentially be better than Romek and RG. Not likely, but possible.
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Mixons

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 16:17

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Ben: I dont think that drawing from all teams is fair. Because if team which registred after number 24, and he drawed Romek and RG in qualifications they have probably no chance to win, ven if they are pretty good and better than half of teams in tour. Lets say that Mullberry is back and in last day he register with Revo, then draw Romek and RG in qualifications and they have anyway very small chance. That is not fair i think. We should draw to qualifications only teams from seed 2.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 16:52

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

actually ben his method is more fair, strength in players is always a matter of opinion ( for example one guy says romek is good, the other guy says he is very bad). also in real tournaments the matchup is random, weaker teams get matched up with stronger ones. but it does not always mean the weaker team automatically loses. the weaker teams will be matched against strong teams sooner or later, and it is actually not fair to stronger teamsthat they have to fight stronger teams right from the start.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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pawel95

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 17:24

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Yes Ben and Disco are right. Even your example with football or other sport isn´t corret Sado. Like at the qualifications for the WorldCup in Brazil, the first group stage were taken completly randomly, doesn´t matter how strong someone was.
After that, there were too many teams left for the next stage, that´s why the 2nd best team in the randomly chosen group, has played vs an other team from an other group. Like Disco said, it´s subjective to say that Sado is a noob :P or someone else is good. Just for example, because I don´t even know 4 teams completly and in case of like 12 of those 24, I really don´t have an idea, about their current performance. You can´t compare teams, only because someone was maybe "good" a half year ago (or bad) ;-)

Again like disco said(and again back to football): Who cares if Spain would play vs Italy in the group stage and kick them out, or both teams would come to the final, and there spain would kick out their enemy. Specialy because this tournament has a looser bracket, there is no argument like "For some teams, that can be a short tournament, if they get one of the strongest teams :mrgreen: )
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wintertournament

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Post 05 Feb 2014, 20:44

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

OK, seems like have enough teams, so controversial qualifications are not going to be a problem. The registration is closed now. Kind of. We're going to play with 28 teams, but if 4 more teams register before tomorrow's drawing, we will play 32 instead. So keep registering until TOMORROW! There is still a chance to participate :)

I will give you the hour of the drawing (which will be livestreamed) tomorrow as well, in a follow up post.
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wintertournament

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Post 06 Feb 2014, 15:49

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Sorry for double post, but the drawing of the Winter tournament is going to start at 18:00 CET! (that is, 1h 15min from now) You should check out my stream at http://www.twitch.tv/sado0000001/ (I think Pawel will make a "mirror" of the stream as well for his subscribers). I invite everyone to kamts.eu as well - I'm sure many of the participants will be there then :)

edit: the drawing is over, see the list of teams in first post for the groups
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Ben

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Post 07 Feb 2014, 22:13

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Hey guys, if you want me to commentate on any of the streams, please send me a PM. I really enjoy doing it so I'd also be quite greatful :)
I used to spam this forum so much...
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wintertournament

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Post 09 Feb 2014, 00:35

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

Lewin should make a post in the morning, with the Remake tournament version installer. This means you can finally start playing the games (yes, one day ahead of schedule).

Meanwhile, someone asked me whether spectating is allowed. Of course not! :P The only allowed spectators are the "official" streamers of the tournament (so far it's sado, Paweł, vovets, but the list might be longer with time... check the first post) along with whoever might be helping them commentate (for example, To, Ben, Lewin etc.) If someone joins with one of these nicknames and wants to spectate, always demand a confirmation by a message on forums (either PM or minichat) or on TeamSpeak, if you have it. Otherwise, if the other team is cheating by using a friendly spectator, it is your own fault.

Note: the official streamers are REQUIRED to set a delay of 40 minutes while streaming tournament games. Failure to do so may result in a rehost without the streamer and lack of permission to do the next streams.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 09 Feb 2014, 04:56

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

as regarding of streamers streaming the tournament, i would like to request that streamers who also partticipatein the trounement will be banned from streaming within their own group, because they might analyze the ascpect in the game biased on their own perofrmnce within te group or ue streams to benefit theit own stra. although i prefer only people not related to the tournament streaming games, it cannot be avoided if the aim is to stream every game. But i prefer streamersthatrenot particiating at all, since they do not have anything to gain from this, and they are the leastsubjective about any team.yes ben atm i cannot think of anyone else but you.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Ben

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Post 09 Feb 2014, 06:17

Re: Winter Tournament 2v2

yes ben atm i cannot think of anyone else but you.
One of the many reasons why I chose not to participate :D
I used to spam this forum so much...

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