Diagonal roads

[GreatWhiteBear]

GO LEWIN!!!!!!!!!!

[Michzn]

People who doesn't know, that diagonal roads work, have a big disadvantage and aren't as skilled as people who knows that..
It's the same as for example people who doesn't know that it works to shoot through walls in CS .. It means skill.. It should only look a bit better, but with the remake, I won't build beautiful bases, I want to build FAST..
Anyone else with the same meaning?
heart, michii

[pavlos]

People who doesn't know, that diagonal roads work, have a big disadvantage and aren't as skilled as people who knows that..
It's the same as for example people who doesn't know that it works to shoot through walls in CS .. It means skill.. It should only look a bit better, but with the remake, I won't build beautiful bases, I want to build FAST..
Anyone else with the same meaning?
heart, michii

Yes yes yes! Me too!. . . this is advantage for a good player. . . And me am not so "pro" player, i just play it for fun, and am a like a "n00b" Sorry for bad language... but my friends are more expirience for that game...

[GreatWhiteBear]

What browser are you using?
just search for language packs for your browser and install them, this way you can see spelling mistakes like expirience which should be experience.
Not saying my English is great either but my spelling mistakes are mainly corrected by the language pack, I still make grammar mistakes on occasion or use the wrong word(implanted in stead of implemented).

[Shadaoe]

You can obviously see that diagonal roads aren't done to be used, since graphics aren't implemented, so it was a bug in the original game. I mean, once you see it doesn't work, you know and you won't do the mistake another time !
Personnally I love to have a beautiful realistic village ;o

[Litude]

Personally I think diagonal roads should be allowed. I even used them in single player sometimes when building space was really scarce and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Sure they didn't look all that good in the village but it helped my serfs find their way around cramped spaces more than once. (E.g. when building near mountains or slopes laying roads correctly could be troublesome.) Besides as you already pointed out with the Remake there's always the possibility of fixing the fact that such roads are not as aesthetically pleasing. Don't think it should be anywhere near the top of your ToDo list though.

[Attyla]

I think that diagonal road shouldnt work, like in the case ther is a stump or somethig like this.

  Code:

x  ?x[/quote] ? is a stump it shows that it is a bug, like it was with the saveing stones road made from not builded and demolished buildings (now thanks to Lewin and Krom fixed). I dont know how serfs are choosig the road but i think they should use diagonal one like any other terrain (grass itp). If it is not too hard to implement. People who dont know secret code in a storehouse have big disadventage and are not so skilled. :wink: :lol: :D :D :D

[Litude]

Regarding it being a bug, we have this screenshot from a beta which makes it clear the developers at Joymania were aware of this. It might originally have been an unwanted side-effect of them making serfs cut corners short but they had to be aware of the fact that diagonal roads were possible long before the game was finally released.

[xzaz]

People who doesn't know, that diagonal roads work, have a big disadvantage and aren't as skilled as people who knows that..
It's the same as for example people who doesn't know that it works to shoot through walls in CS .. It means skill.. It should only look a bit better, but with the remake, I won't build beautiful bases, I want to build FAST..
Anyone else with the same meaning?
heart, michii

That is true in a way, but the game isn't Build for it. CS is build for banging walls, AK and M4 can bang nothing else (isnt' it?). KaM Remake has the ability to walk diagonal but the GUI doesn't like it.

So the question now, aprove this, create a good GUI for it.. or ban it. The result is in the poll.

[Michzn]

True true.. I have no problems with a nice gui and diagonal roads, but I don't want to pay more for it, I mean, it doesn't matter whether it looks good or bad, I want to do all roads as short as I can, so the best solution would be to fix the GUI, that everything is looking nice but not change the amount of stones, paying for it..

Another solution would be to choose it in the games.. Choosing map, choosing the peacetime and choosing the extended settings like the amount of paying stones for roads..

By the way, it is so amazing, that the guys have made the remake.. And it's amazing too, that so much people still play the game <3<3

[Michzn]

@ Litude: Nice! I guess they wanted the people to choose whether they can build beautiful roads or fast roads.. Both can be built, so I think there should be fixed nothing.. My wish is, that KaM should stay as original as it can..
BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW, I can't decide for my own.. I like ugly streets But I like olives, and about 50% from people all over the world don't like olives, so..

[The Dark Lord]

Ugly roads gets too many votes.

I'm disappointed in this community.

[Shadaoe]

Oh thanks Litude for this screenshot, indeed they didn't fix that intentionally

[Attyla]

I have a picture...
And explanation
why diagonal roads should be allowed (and rendered nice would be great)

I voted against diagonal roads, but I didnt consider it carrefuly. I just now have discovered that diagonal roads are more fair. It is because the proper length of diagonal is A*sqtr(2). And sqrt(2)=1.414312... so when diagonal length is A it is better approximation than 2A.

And on the figure you can easy count that it is better to road length be 10 than 20 (while in fact is about 14).
Also I noticed funny fact. Circle is a set of pointes that are a given distance from the centre. In the first case circle transforms into a square
and in the second also but rotated 90 deg and two times smaller. On both figures you can count that every point on the square is the same distance from centre, so in our "roads geometry" which is not Euclidean it is circle.

I also checked how militia walks and found out that he respect our physics and Euclidean geometry. So he goes through diagonal within fraction of time he goes through perpendicular road, but EDIT SLOWER than the same lenght(number of stones) straight raod.

EDIT Faster and slower doesnt mean with higher or lower speed but within shorter or longer time.

EDIT sorry for spamming, but I had to to post an image

[Lewin]

You are right Attyla. But another thing to consider is the fact that units walk faster diagonally. If you start two serfs in the top left of the map, (1;1) and one starts walking to the far right (192;1) and the other starts walking to the bottom right (192,192), they will arrive at exactly the same time. This doesn't really make sense, but if we didn't do it this way it wouldn't feel like KaM.
So in this sense diagonal roads are a kind of "super highway" that makes your serfs walk 1.41 times faster! Surely such a useful road should cost more than a normal one...
EDIT: This is completely wrong. Of course units go the same speed regardless of whether they are going diagonally or not. Please ignore the whole paragraph above and forgive me for my stupidity.

A lot of people said they'd like to see what it would look like, so I spent 20 minutes making a quick mock up:
http://lewin.hodgman.id.au/temp/diag-4.jpg

Does this still look like KaM to you? I don't see any problems with it to be honest, it's a lot better than making the road weave as it does now. Although implementing this in the game will be a LOT of work as there are so many transitions to make...
But this does not answer the question of whether the player should have to spend 10 or 20 stones to make a diagonal road of length 14 as we can make it look like this no matter which way it we do it.
I'm still in favour of it costing 2 stones.
A problem with it costing 1 stone is that then the road will be running along the corners of tiles, so if there is a tree it will be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the road thus blocking the path... I don't know how we'd sort that out. If there was a tree the way I'm suggesting, it would be to the side of the road as the road is not running across tile corners. It would be just like the weaving road (second image from my first post) but it would look like this, so with the corners smoothed out nicely.
I could start a new poll and lock this topic if people have different opinions now.

@Attyla: Please avoid double posting (you actually posted 4 times in a row) You can edit your latest post, so in future do that. I have merged your 4 posts into one, you can edit it if you don't like it.