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Windmill tactic.

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Lance

Peasant

Posts: 3

Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 13:26

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 03 Feb 2015, 13:43

Windmill tactic.

Hey there, I'm a new user on KAM forum, but not so new player. Probably, I will remember to the end of my life how happy I was when my father bought me "KAM The Peasants Rebellion" when I was a kid. I returned to game some months ago and thank you Lewin and Krom for amazing work. I even had a pleasure to play with Lewin in one team (I fell like a fame now :P).

Anyway I'm here to discuss with you the windmill tactic. Not sure if there was a thread like this before. The thing is, that there are a lot of annoying tactics in KAM, but this one brought me here and I wanted to ask you what you think.
Image
It's simple, you "spam flour" and then exchange what you need in market.

After peace time we (me and my brother from team) saw quite... quite big army of militas, pikemen nad xbows. We thought "oh shi*t". But actually our opponent was quite bad and we handled this army easily since he couldn't really fight well. We made new army very quickly and started moving to their base, but... When we arrived there, they made new army. Not such big, but still, since one was doing xbows and second player melee units, they had dozens of xbows. We managed to get to their base, but sadly, xbows army was so big, that we had no time to destroy one castle... Afterwards, my brother left, because he consider this strategy as strategy for noobs and had no time to play with them for whole day.

What you guys think about this?
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Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3237

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

Location: Russia

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 14:05

Re: Windmill tactic.

Hi and welcome to the forum! :-)

With every trade player looses ~120% of ware value. Mandatory read on topic: http://www.kamremake.com/devblog/how-do ... are-right/

There's no "strategy for noobs", that leads to a successful defense or victory ;-)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 14:52

Re: Windmill tactic.

it's a nice lategame option, but i doubt you will have any army around pt though. it's also a large bother to set up, especially since sausages trade way better and they provide leather as bonus :)
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Lance

Peasant

Posts: 3

Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 13:26

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:08

Re: Windmill tactic.

I agree there's no strategy for noobs, but let me just give an example. Some people used workers to empty out the towers from stones, and you added a protection from this, now ppl can't make fields near towers. Also you deleted some things from original game and you don't add some things like killing your units because you consider them as unreal. Does this strategy looks like a real strategy? I just think that making 30 windmills in your town is not a way KAM should be played. I like markets but they are a good late option, like when you are out of sources and still u can't win, markets make a game go on, but using them from the beginning... I mean, you obviously can win vs players like this, we managed to attack their castle so one hour more and we probably would win (except that players from top started approaching with their army), but still, I don't really like this.

Thanks for warm welcome Krom by the way.
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Killer!!

Sword Fighter

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Location: On my chair

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:10

Re: Windmill tactic.

How did he get enough corn to suply those mills and even swinefarms??? I don't see any farms! ;)
Do you want to play with/against me? Just write me a PM :D
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Esthlos

User avatar

Knight

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Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 16:02

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:39

Re: Windmill tactic.

If I remember correctly someone proposed to make Market's prices increase with each transaction, but I don't remember if that idea was ultimately rejected and why.

Killer!! wrote:How did he get enough corn to suply those mills and even swinefarms??? I don't see any farms! ;)

He mined out nearly all the stone and built Vineyards; may he have traded wine and stone for corn?
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

Posts: 1314

Joined: 12 Feb 2012, 21:36

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:45

Re: Windmill tactic.

if this really is a strategy people use you can easily destroy it, a normal build would be productive so much faster that the army at pt would crush the market army. but i have no idea how much pt people play these days though.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Tiank

User avatar

Knight

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:47

Re: Windmill tactic.

Also, I can see that you were playing with Bonus, so maybe that player choose Rich, so that his trades were more efficent, which actually would make sense for doing tactic like this.

Could you attach a replay as well? :)
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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Ben

User avatar

Council Member

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Location: California GMT - 8 (Standard Time)

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 15:48

Re: Windmill tactic.

Lol at those windmills. What a troll tactic :D


But really, it's terrible. A complete waste. You could make much better armies with more mundane builds, so why bother worrying about if it is "ethical" or not ;)

A more efficient windmill: Image

EDIT: I see Tiank's reply. Actually Rich will of course ruin the balance of the marketplace. I seem to remember rich giving you 2x the resources from marketplace? That's mega abuse. Best ones I found were 3 wooden weapons -> 2 iron weapons and tree trunk -> 2 corn. I had 60 knights in 60 minutes combining this, but I'm sure there options even more powerful.
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3237

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

Location: Russia

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 16:49

Re: Windmill tactic.

Lance wrote:I agree there's no strategy for noobs, but let me just give an example. Some people used workers to empty out the towers from stones, and you added a protection from this, now ppl can't make fields near towers. Also you deleted some things from original game and you don't add some things like killing your units because you consider them as unreal. Does this strategy looks like a real strategy? I just think that making 30 windmills in your town is not a way KAM should be played. I like markets but they are a good late option, like when you are out of sources and still u can't win, markets make a game go on, but using them from the beginning... I mean, you obviously can win vs players like this, we managed to attack their castle so one hour more and we probably would win (except that players from top started approaching with their army), but still, I don't really like this.

Thanks for warm welcome Krom by the way.


I'll answer in a list to make sure I don't miss anything:
1. We have disabled builders emptying towers partly because that looked unethical and unhonorable in KaM world. Army is for army deeds, civilians are for civil life.
2. I don't recall deleting things from original TSK. We just did not added everything from TPR.
3. Killing own units - see pt.1. Though we have an idea to allow to return units back to school, without gold returned. So at least they wont eat precious food.
4. Making 30 windmills is a viable deviation. But it is not practical. Building a diverse town is around twice more effective. Using market from the beginning is possible strategy, but far from being a good one.
5. You can watch some of KaM replays on youtube and see amounts of armies and towns that skilled players make in just ~60-70min. Just for the reference.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Ben

User avatar

Council Member

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Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00

Location: California GMT - 8 (Standard Time)

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Post 03 Feb 2015, 16:52

Re: Windmill tactic.

Krom wrote:5. You can watch some of KaM replays on youtube and see amounts of armies and towns that skilled players make in just ~60-70min. Just for the reference.


I hear Prince Lothar has some nice videos ;)

Seriously now, this is a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTMmdakci4g
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Esthlos

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 675

Joined: 23 Jun 2013, 16:02

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 03 Feb 2015, 17:01

Re: Windmill tactic.

Tiank wrote:Also, I can see that you were playing with Bonus, so maybe that player choose Rich, so that his trades were more efficent, which actually would make sense for doing tactic like this.

Could you attach a replay as well? :)

I second this.
(Didn't notice the overlay... good catch, Tiank!)

Ben wrote:EDIT: I see Tiank's reply. Actually Rich will of course ruin the balance of the marketplace. I seem to remember rich giving you 2x the resources from marketplace? That's mega abuse. Best ones I found were 3 wooden weapons -> 2 iron weapons and tree trunk -> 2 corn. I had 60 knights in 60 minutes combining this, but I'm sure there options even more powerful.

Yep, it gives x2 trade value, and ruining the balance of the marketplace is the whole point of the Rich bonus.

But if that was a - Bonus game, then what should be seen is if x2 is too much for Rich compared to the other bonuses... this isn't a problem with the game though, this is a problem with the balance of - Bonus.
Just when you think you know something, you have to look at it in another way, even though it may seem silly or wrong. You must try! - John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"
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Killer!!

Sword Fighter

Posts: 262

Joined: 01 Sep 2013, 10:51

Location: On my chair

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 03 Feb 2015, 17:46

Re: Windmill tactic.

@Ben Need more of those videos :P hehehe
Do you want to play with/against me? Just write me a PM :D
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Lance

Peasant

Posts: 3

Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 13:26

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 03 Feb 2015, 18:19

Re: Windmill tactic.

Yep, that was a map with bonus, I played it only once so I didn't think a lot about this. So actually windmill tactic seems legit only on bonus map. Under normal conditions it's inefficient.
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zombie01

User avatar

Pikeman

Posts: 152

Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 13:04

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 04 Feb 2015, 05:09

Re: Windmill tactic.

Lance wrote:Yep, that was a map with bonus, I played it only once so I didn't think a lot about this. So actually windmill tactic seems legit only on bonus map. Under normal conditions it's inefficient.

pssst lance, is that you?
or are you his evil twin?
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