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r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

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Bo_co

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Post 01 Aug 2014, 15:02

r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Somebody said, that present system of wood distribution will help us since first build --> and its school. Everyone were really irytable when suddenly the building had lack of wood and the build just stopped.
Since this release we have best/ fastest school ever...

But...

Everything after school, our development depends of wood distrubution wich had priority. So every time when you put a new building, even if its further than these buildings you have put before, the wood would flow together with surfs straight to that "far-new building".So then the nearest buildings have lack of stone. And since extra buildings after school this "new" wood pattern work incorrect.

Whats more, the priority its still wood, so if you put 5 new buildings (f.ex. 60serfs/25builders) firstly the wood will spread over the city, so the stonemason doesn't work --> idle time (stone is unnecessary,no making path just build). And then the surfs start distribute stones to new buildings, and what is the result of that ? The masons start digging and since now you are lack with stone, even if you have 5/6 of them, the development will stagnate for a 2/3 minutes, and actually have no working base is the worst thing i have in my city.

The stonemasons should work all the time as it was before this release.
Its not only my problem, which i have seen already around.

So, it woulld be better if wood flow firstly to school, right, and then no more priority with distribution.
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pawel95

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Post 17 Aug 2014, 15:40

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

I have read this post already before I went to holidays. I agree with Bo Co, also when the point isn´t clear. My idea before RC was to have a "less random school", so every player in a multiplayer game would have nearly the same starting conditions. The devs liked they idea and implemented it. However now players that play more often KaM than I do right now, have noticed that there are some problems later on(I already described it in another post, if I am correct).


Bo co mentioned a typical problem: You place a woodcutter and 2 stonemeasons. First you place a woodcutter. Nearly at the same time the connection to the stonemeason is finished up also. Now there is a problem: The serfs will bring some wood to the forester, which is fine(like the new "system" should work), BUT nearly every time serfs won´t bring stones to that building, but rather bring


wood to the next buildings (like the stonemeason).

This way, you have like 3 started buildings. All 3 are unfinished, mostly they all have wood already, but no stone. In the older Remake 1-2 of these 3 buildings would be ready (sure you would have way less roads then).

So this way there is like an endless loop. They will bring wood to the next, next, next, next building, but they will never bring stone to the first building. So most players have to stop the building phase and wait, until the serfs start to deliver stone to your woodcutter.


I don´t like the idea of Bo_Co to give a special delivery system specialy for the school. Maybe Lewin or Krom could explain (or paste in from somewhere) what was changed exactly, I mean it´s still a nice idea with "wood first, than stone" but somehow there is a bug or a mistake that makes the system looks like: "Bring ONLY wood to ALL buildings, if no more orders, bring stone


Pawel
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Duke Valennius

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Post 17 Aug 2014, 19:03

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

pawel95 wrote:...This way, you have like 3 started buildings. All 3 are unfinished, mostly they all have wood already, but no stone...


Yet when someone complains that all his labourers go like crazy for roads when there are 50 buildings ready to be constructed, it gets dismissed as lack of "labourer micro" (or something) with advice - don't plan that many roads. So here - don't plan as many buildings. There, problem solved :P

If you see a difference in these two cases, I'd love to hear it
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sado1

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Post 17 Aug 2014, 19:14

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Of course there's a difference. You have a very direct control on the roads - you can plan and delete them all the time. However, the control over buildings isn't as direct - you plan them in advance. Serfs bringing stone to roads are directly controlled by amount of road plans being planned by a player. Serfs bringing wood and stone to buildings are not controlled at all because 1) they bring ~5-6 resources per building 2) therefore the waiting time for a building to be finished is much longer 3) the change which is being discussed here made it worse. Of course there are players who make too many buildings at once (which leads them to screwing up their base), but it is wood, not serf related. I hope you get what I mean.
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Duke Valennius

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Post 17 Aug 2014, 19:56

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

sado1 wrote:Of course there's a difference. You have a very direct control on the roads - you can plan and delete them all the time. However, the control over buildings isn't as direct - you plan them in advance. Serfs bringing stone to roads are directly controlled by amount of road plans being planned by a player. Serfs bringing wood and stone to buildings are not controlled at all because 1) they bring ~5-6 resources per building 2) therefore the waiting time for a building to be finished is much longer 3) the change which is being discussed here made it worse. Of course there are players who make too many buildings at once (which leads them to screwing up their base), but it is wood, not serf related. I hope you get what I mean.


Seems reasonable. There is indeed much less control, but it occurred to me that change was more matter of being different, rather than worse. Maybe if I actually played with this change it would be more obvious, but it still seems to me like something you can adapt to.

Anyway, back when I played original KaM these building materials deliveries bugged me. Is there any reason why there isn't priority based on when you laid out plans for building? (deliver all resources to oldest plan, first wood then stone, proceed to next plan). It seems to me to be the most natural. Of course I might be missing something. (only thing that comes to mind is that your priorities can change over time, but at the moment you have no control over them, so it's better?)
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Bo_co

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Post 25 Aug 2014, 21:17

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Its still better have school in random build like in previous release, then the system which we have in present valid version. Serfs should know what to do.
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Ben

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Post 25 Aug 2014, 22:13

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Maybe just have serfs have priority for individual buildings? For example, they will deliver wood first then stone to only one building, but not necessarily to all? (But then how does the priority for sending resources to buildings sites work anyway?)
#thunderposting #greentornado
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pawel95

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Post 25 Aug 2014, 22:54

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

That´s the plan how to fix it. I think exactly this way it will be fixed.
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pawel95

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Post 25 Aug 2014, 22:55

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

When I have talked with lewin about the problem and the possible solutions, I think he said that this will be the plan how to fix it, just like you said:


In both situations 3 buildings are ready at the same time (2 stonemeasons, 1 forester for example):

"Wood first. Then Stone. NEXT BUILDING Wood first. Then Stone."

Not like right now:

"Wood first... next building is also ready, Wood first, 3rd building is also ready, Wood first..... stone to building 1,2,3,x"
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Lewin

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Post 06 Sep 2014, 07:37

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Ok, I think I've sorted this out. If you have 3 houses A,B,C at increasing distance from the storehouse (for example A=10 tiles, B=11 tiles, C=15 tiles) then building materials will be delivered strictly in this order:
A wood
A stone
B wood
B stone
C wood
C stone

This change only affects deliveries of building materials. All other deliveries will work the same as they do now.
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pawel95

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Post 06 Sep 2014, 08:02

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Yep this is what I mean :D This way, there should be the aim that I wanted with this idea "fast and equal start for everyone" and "first buildings first" :mrgreen:
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dicsoupcan

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Post 06 Sep 2014, 09:21

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

oh this is actually great to have, often when i build multiple buildings i want to have the one i placed first often earlier but instead the serfs deliver to all other blueprints except the one i want at that moment.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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pawel95

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Post 06 Sep 2014, 10:09

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

dicsoupcan wrote:oh this is actually great to have, often when i build multiple buildings i want to have the one i placed first often earlier but instead the serfs deliver to all other blueprints except the one i want at that moment.


That was the reason why this topic and the whole discussion were made :D
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Bo_co

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Post 06 Sep 2014, 14:46

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

Thanks a lot Lewin !

Im looking forward to the next release.
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Lewin

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Post 07 Sep 2014, 01:17

Re: r6478 wooden fail/fix stone pls

dicsoupcan wrote:oh this is actually great to have, often when i build multiple buildings i want to have the one i placed first often earlier but instead the serfs deliver to all other blueprints except the one i want at that moment.

That's actually not how it works. It's not buildings that you placed first which will be delivered first, it's the ones which are closest to the source material (storehouse/stonemason/sawmill). But that's how it worked in r5503 when stone and wood were equal priority so I don't think it will be a problem.
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