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Classifying "special" maps

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Lewin

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 05:51

Classifying "special" maps

I'm adding multiplayer maps for the next release and I'm struggling to decide how to classify some of them.

First of all, maps which are 90% a building or fighting map but with a minor script will go in the building/fighting sections. For example Center Castle Looting will go in the building section, and Snow Cross is a battle map even though it has the random armies script.

Next there's a lot of maps which are both coop and special, for example:
Invasion (Zombie Apocalypse)
The Maze
Castle Defenders

Cooperative maps mean you cannot use peacetime or set teams in the lobby (alliances are defined by the mission). However in special maps you can set peacetime and teams, which is undesirable for these maps. Therefore it kind of makes sense to put them in coop. But they're unlike all the other coop maps. Perhaps we can have a way to optionally disable PT and teams selection for special maps too?

If we do move them to coop this does not leave many maps in special. Just the very unusual ones like Florescence, Town Merchants, etc. So why have a special section at all if it will only have 1-2 maps in it?

What do you think? Maybe you can suggest a better way to categorise/organise multiplayer maps?
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sado1

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 06:50

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Short term solution would be to leave the unusual coops on the special maps list, because they are too different to be put on the coop list - they're all fight maps, for instance, and the older coops are all building maps... Long term... maybe we'd have some icons on the maps, telling people that it's a special/fight/coop/etc. map? The way I see it used, for example, there would be a list of coop maps on which, if you choose Zombie Apocalypse, you will see special, coop and fight icons. If you choose Center Castle (Looting) on the eco list, you will see eco and special icons. Town Merchants - special and... hm, that's it I guess? :P Also, each map could have an 2P/4P/6P/8P icon as well.
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Lewin

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 07:40

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Ok, unusual coops can stay on the special list but I think I'll add a command in the map TXT file to disable the PT sliders and another to disable choosing teams. In some special maps like The Maze, Tournament, etc. choosing teams breaks the mission or will be overwritten by the script once the game starts anyway. Similarly, some special maps are not designed to work with PT.

I also think I'll disable the PT sliders on all fighting maps. Is there any reason not to do that?

I'm not sure your icons idea solves the problem, but they would look nice.
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Tiank

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 08:29

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Lewin wrote:I think I'll add a command in the map TXT file to disable the PT sliders and another to disable choosing teams.
That's the best idea I think. Maze and Castle Defenders don't fit into co-op list. Yes, it is a cooperation, but in a whole different way than on co-op maps, where you build first and then fight against AI's base.
Lewin wrote:I also think I'll disable the PT sliders on all fighting maps
Yeah, it's a good idea. There is really no reason for keeping PT slider at fighting maps.
Lewin wrote:I'm not sure your icons idea solves the problem, but they would look nice.
It's gonna be more intuitive, since you'd only need a quick look to know more or less what to expect from a map. And it will look nice for sure :).
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Krom

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 08:40

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Perhaps in later version we could have a set of flags for each map

Coop -/X
Heavily Scripted -/X
Fighting -/X
Economy -/X
Against AI -/X

That would be most versatile system I think.
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Lewin

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 15:22

Re: Classifying "special" maps

I added 3 commands to the map TXT file: BlockPeacetime, BlockTeamSelection and BlockFullMapPreview. All 3 are automatically set for cooperative maps and BlockPeacetime is auto set for battles. So now special maps have control over these things without needing to be in the coop list :)
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Krom

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 18:38

Re: Classifying "special" maps

What does BlockFullMapPreview does exactly, can you post a screen please?
BlockFullMapPreview sounds a bit unfair, since clever players can toggle that flag in TXT and have an advantage over other players. I suggest to remove that flag.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 18:45

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Krom wrote:What does BlockFullMapPreview does exactly, can you post a screen please?
BlockFullMapPreview sounds a bit unfair, since clever players can toggle that flag in TXT and have an advantage over other players. I suggest to remove that flag.


players can also open the map editor and see the map, but i think the command is more for co op play rather then competitive play.
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pawel95

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Post 29 Jun 2014, 18:59

Re: Classifying "special" maps

dicsoupcan wrote:
Krom wrote:What does BlockFullMapPreview does exactly, can you post a screen please?
BlockFullMapPreview sounds a bit unfair, since clever players can toggle that flag in TXT and have an advantage over other players. I suggest to remove that flag.


players can also open the map editor and see the map, but i think the command is more for co op play rather then competitive play.



Yeah. it works already in the current release at coop maps. You don´t see the whole map in the Multiplayerlobby, so you don´t see where the big cities of the enemies are :mrgreen: COOP-Only I guess.
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Lewin

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Post 30 Jun 2014, 01:26

Re: Classifying "special" maps

As the others said, it's only intended for cooperative maps where the human players work together. The intention is to not spoil the surprise of where the AI's village is (and how big it is), in the same way that in singleplayer we don't reveal the whole map. We need the flag so that maps in the special list (because they are heavily scripted) but are still cooperative can hide the map.
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RandomLyrics

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Post 01 Jul 2014, 14:02

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Hmm some time ago i was wondering about classifying map, one problem bother my head, the "download" option give people free hand to edit map and upload it to the players, its just a guessing but in future it will coz problem like many version of the same map will mess around in the community (a little change like more iron in "my" loc - easy cheating and no one will even realizes that little change ) .
Check it:
Official maps ( for melee/tournament/ranked )( for these map the editor will be disabled ( option only for authors or dev ), these map will be update with client update or small maps patches )//(or set some passwords/encrypting, authors sets these passwords):
- economy
- tactical
Special maps(scripted):
- coop
- pvp
I think that simple map classified will be enough :) let me know your opinion
and an idea, changeable minimap preview :) like this:
Image
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pawel95

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Post 01 Jul 2014, 16:10

Re: Classifying "special" maps

WOW I like this idea pretty much!
I wouldn´t do this for every map, only for some maps where the designer doesn´t want to show the map in the lobby (coops/special).
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Lewin

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Post 02 Jul 2014, 07:07

Re: Classifying "special" maps

RandomLyrics wrote:Hmm some time ago i was wondering about classifying map, one problem bother my head, the "download" option give people free hand to edit map and upload it to the players, its just a guessing but in future it will coz problem like many version of the same map will mess around in the community (a little change like more iron in "my" loc - easy cheating and no one will even realizes that little change ) .
Check it:
Official maps ( for melee/tournament/ranked )( for these map the editor will be disabled ( option only for authors or dev ), these map will be update with client update or small maps patches )//(or set some passwords/encrypting, authors sets these passwords):
- economy
- tactical
Special maps(scripted):
- coop
- pvp
I think that simple map classified will be enough :) let me know your opinion

I don't really understand your idea, can you explain it more clearly? However, IMO it's fine if people want to modify maps in the Remake, trying to lock maps seems counter productive. Maybe a group of friends want to add some extra food/gold to their favourite MP map then play it, why should we stop them?

Players should be very cautious about downloading maps from strangers, because obviously they can be rigged to make it easier for the host. But the players must click the download button to get that rigged map, it won't download automatically. Maybe the download button should show a confirmation box "Warning: Downloaded maps might be modified to benefit the player sending them to you. Be cautious when downloading maps from players you do not trust".

RandomLyrics wrote:and an idea, changeable minimap preview :) like this:
Image

The first thing people will do is put a naked picture there, then sit in a lobby and wait for people to download it. KaM Remake multiplayer instantly becomes R18 rated. So we'd have to at least skip that image file for downloading maps. I'm not sure it's much of a benefit anyway. Those pictures are really just decoration (doesn't hold useful information), but seeing the minimap helps you choose locations and know what to expect from the map.
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pawel95

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Post 02 Jul 2014, 07:15

Re: Classifying "special" maps

Lewin wrote:
Players should be very cautious about downloading maps from strangers, because obviously they can be rigged to make it easier for the host. But the players must click the download button to get that rigged map, it won't download automatically. Maybe the download button should show a confirmation box "Warning: Downloaded maps might be modified to benefit the player sending them to you. Be cautious when downloading maps from players you do not trust".


I guess you know that already, but it will be really hard to do so, because everyone can take "Lewin" as a name in the remake, make a lobby and let players download a troll map XD that were my first doubts about the download function (even replacing good maps with blanco/empty maps with the same name xd).

About the picture you are right, never thought of that, but wouldn't the remake get R18 rated also if someone would draw a naked body with stone and gold tiles ? :lol:
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Lewin

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Post 02 Jul 2014, 07:45

Re: Classifying "special" maps

pawel95 wrote:I guess you know that already, but it will be really hard to do so, because everyone can take "Lewin" as a name in the remake, make a lobby and let players download a troll map XD that were my first doubts about the download function (even replacing good maps with blanco/empty maps with the same name xd).

People shouldn't trust someone by their name, they should make contact with them another way like TS or Skype to confirm it's actually them. Maps won't be replaced when you download them anymore, they go into a separate folder (MapsDL) with their hash appended. You can then move them into your official folders later if you want to.

pawel95 wrote:About the picture you are right, never thought of that, but wouldn't the remake get R18 rated also if someone would draw a naked body with stone and gold tiles ? :lol:

Drawing on the map only gives you 256 different tile types to use, and very little variety in color. IMO you could not make something detailed enough to be offensive enough to warrant an R18 rating. But with a full color image you can put anything you like there in perfect color and detail, so it's kind of different. It's also way easier because you can just download an image, rather than having to draw it or write a script to draw it for you.
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