Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

[dicsoupcan]

anti makes a valid point here, but you can revert changes if it is really bad. I know there is always a beta where people test new features and changes. but the group of betatesters who provide feedback is small which means the information provided is usefull but still not representative, and thus problems can arise when changes go live because the group who deals with the changes are way larger. (for you non statistical people, more data is more reliable which is in this case aquired by more testers). We are kind of to blame for not providing much feedback about the gamespeed sliders, as far as i know we tried it, decided it was too fast and never posted any feedback.

[Krom]

I'm inclining towards reverting speedup to maximum x2, but first thing we need to collect some stats. Sadly master server does not collects speedup value, so we cant do it from our side till next version. What about running a poll here on forum and see how many vote for their usual speed setting (x1 x1.5 x2 x2.5 x3). Can you guys make that poll?

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

I'm inclining towards reverting speedup to maximum x2, but first thing we need to collect some stats. Sadly master server does not collects speedup value, so we cant do it from our side till next version. What about running a poll here on forum and see how many vote for their usual speed setting (x1 x1.5 x2 x2.5 x3). Can you guys make that poll?

That's possible, but not nearly as accurate as implementing the monitoring of it in the master server.

Here you'll only get votes from the community, who mostly love to play on x1. All the other players (that probably prefer faster gameplay) are ignored that way.

Edit: unless you point them to this poll by advertising in the Remake..

[Krom]

I will run the same poll on Facebook and we will be able to compare the numbers. As I have said we can't collect stats from master server till next release because stats are not reported by client and are not collected by master-server. Maybe we could do a trick and detect speedup value from game started time and reported time, but I'm not sure.

[WollongongWolf]

That being said, evolution isn't always bad. Game speeds and other options allow for different gameplay and tactics, so the possibilities are endless. Maybe it would be nice to have some sort
of "Classic KaM" game option, to show what kind of lobby it is in one glance. Lobbies with altered setting could be something like a "Custom lobby".

Naming the games like "Classic KaM" and "Custom Lobby" might be interpreted as that Classic (which I assume is 1x 60pt? ) is the real way of playing kam (which is not what "randoms" think=> main problem imo) and custom is more playing something else for fun (so in my opinion a nice idea).
Perhaps a map commission (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1756) can go through the current maps and set a "classic game settings" and on new maps, the creators can make them themselves (make it x1 60 by default and editable somewhere) (Because let's not play the FwF map with 60 pt...).

[WhiteWolf]

Well, i think that 'leavers' should be punished but don't delete the speed frames.. But i do think that x1 / x1.25 / x2 are good options.

Before the x2.0 and x2.5 speed my LAN group said "it takes to long to play 1 game, so we rather play a different game like LoL or CoD" Since the extra speed we now LAN KaM every other weekend.

[Bence791]

Imo saying it takes too long is just bs, they rather go play another game for more time actually? Just more rounds... Logic? None!

[Medium Player]

Sorry if I sound offensive, but this thread is no more than whining too little game partners. The point is: if you want to play with others, you have to adopt their rules. If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

If you're waiting for hours an a lobby, then I feel sorry for you. That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants. It's the same as if you choose a map which nobody likes. You don't find partners then. So let it be the current way. Don't ask the developer to remove Cursed Ravine just so you will find more partners for an unpopular map. You must not force other players to play with your settings. But that's exactly what you do: you want to remove speed and set it to x1. That's bad. I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

[Shadaoe]

Sorry if I sound offensive, but this thread is no more than whining too little game partners. The point is: if you want to play with others, you have to adopt their rules. If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

If you're waiting for hours an a lobby, then I feel sorry for you. That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants. It's the same as if you choose a map which nobody likes. You don't find partners then. So let it be the current way. Don't ask the developer to remove Cursed Ravine just so you will find more partners for an unpopular map. You must not force other players to play with your settings. But that's exactly what you do: you want to remove speed and set it to x1. That's bad. I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

Sorry if I sound offensive, but since time immemorial, the KaM multiplayer was limited to *1 speed, so now if we LIKE playing with *1 speed and think that managing such a complex game at higher speed is not really great, we should adapt to others and give up what always was KaM multiplayer ?
No.

[sado1]

(btw Ben, I meant mutators more than a script, but it's possible a script could be used to test it first)

Krom: I still want to think of a more casual KaM mode, which would be actually fun to play. If it divides the commnunity into casual and hardcore players, then I see no problem. The current issue with x2-x3+high peacetime is that it's making people play worse. There's no way to micro builders at x2-x3 especially when the lag is involved; it's much easier to make mistakes etc. Basically, what I want is something that keeps the skill of the players just like it would be at x1, but it should be much shorter. How about some casual game settings (like: you need 1 farm per 2-3 buildings etc.) so the game can be played with a much lower peacetime while keeping the fun and feel of x1.

Medium player: I don't want to delete it. Instead, I wish it never existed. I don't want to delete stuff because people should be free to choose what they want to play. But I believe it'd be better if the speed slider was never made in the first place.

On the other hand... some people should make up their minds: playing Cursed Ravine (a map which is great but takes way too much time to play on) with x2-x3 speed (because they say the game gets too long) and pt75-90 (which makes the game too long on its own...). What's the actual problem? The game is too slow, or too fast? See what we mean now?

[Tef]

Let me analyze this problem a little bit. What am I noticing:

1 - In most cases, the speed before peacetime is higher than speed after peacetime.
2 - The 'recent' additional options (adjustable peacetime, adjustable speed) create a less homogeneous player base. Hence, a larger total player base is needed to satisfy the minimum required amount of 8 players for most maps. Based on the comments of others, it seems the player base is not yet large enough for this amount of diversification in game settings.
3 - The total time of a game is not linearly correlated to game speed. Increased game speed implies less efficient management due to human capacity. This effect becomes more and more apparent as cities and armies become more complex, which is highly correlated to the time passed in a game (i.e. the longer you play, the larger your city and army is).
4 - The arguing in lobbies, caused by the high amount of customizable settings in the lobby often contributes severely to the total game time, if we define [total game time = sum(rehosts * (waiting time in lobby + actual game time) ].
5 - Many new players hate slow speeds.
6 - Many old players hate fast speeds.
7 - The 2x game speed seems to be some sort of 'forced' compromise to this.

I think the result of this discussion should be to maximize satisfaction. One possible way to calculate this is by saying: TotalSatisfaction = [NumberOfPlayers * IndividualSatisfaction]. Factors that influence either of those two are listed above and throughout this topic.

My thoughts? First of all, get rid of the speed slider. This reduces the amount of settings, and hence the amount of discussions in the lobby, and hence the total playing time, thereby increasing total happiness. However, this chases away some of the players and upsets some as well, which decreases total happiness. By analyzing my list again, I think we need a variable-non-adjustable game speed. Most players seem to accept 2x game speed, at least in the beginning. Later in the game, the traditional players get upset, because they notice things cannot be managed as efficiently as 1x game speed would allow them. However, if we start with a 1x game speed, many new gamers are bored, especially in the beginning, because it's too slow. One key question that I would like to know is: how many players would be really upset with a slow game speed after peace time, if they would be forced? I personally would like to experience a game speed of 1.25. It's faster than 1.0, taking away some of the pain of the fact that 60 game minutes are like 90 minutes in real life than. It's also slower than 1.5, which is already pretty fast for the die-hard-micro-managers of large cities.

This analysis yields me my personal 'optimal' solution: remove the speed slider. Have all games start with a game speed of 2.0, which gradually slows down to a game speed of 1.25 at the moment the peace time ends.

[thunder]

Sorry if I sound offensive, but this thread is no more than whining too little game partners. The point is: if you want to play with others, you have to adopt their rules. If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

If you're waiting for hours an a lobby, then I feel sorry for you. That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants. It's the same as if you choose a map which nobody likes. You don't find partners then. So let it be the current way. Don't ask the developer to remove Cursed Ravine just so you will find more partners for an unpopular map. You must not force other players to play with your settings. But that's exactly what you do: you want to remove speed and set it to x1. That's bad. I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

Okay, but for me a little bit annoying if i m sitting in a lobby and i want to play 1x and somebody join to my lobby and say without any hello this:
"Noob speed!".
I think to the reverse. The faster speed is the noob speed, and those players dont know what is the KAM game...
But really i like that options are chosable, i supported this also. The new feutures always should to be chosable. (Still the building way also..)
Or another, i join a lobby because i would like to try out Castle Centre looting, im the 6th player. I say hello, and ask will be that speed? And the host just kick me without anyreason. No problem...I always try to be polite and fair player...but nowadays the lobbies are so angry, unfriendly...(anyway i still havent played CCL )

This analysis yields me my personal 'optimal' solution: remove the speed slider. Have all games start with a game speed of 2.0, which gradually slows down to a game speed of 1.25 at the moment the peace time ends.

I thought on the same, but i wouldnt like to play higher spped. I like to see how build up the scool step by step, i like the images of the trees, i like to make perfect first 10 minutes... on the higher speed you lose all these feelings...
)Im really courious what will FAST players product on loc7 on Crystallin Falls 8P map with 2x spped and 80PT...give me replay please.
You cant tell me that game play is effective...)

but now i know, im a noob player because i play 1speed only...


Anyway why arent the units talking faster on the 1.5.-2.2.5-3 times speed??? ;P

[pawel95]

Sorry if I sound offensive, but this thread is no more than whining too little game partners. The point is: if you want to play with others, you have to adopt their rules. If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

If you're waiting for hours an a lobby, then I feel sorry for you. That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants. It's the same as if you choose a map which nobody likes. You don't find partners then. So let it be the current way. Don't ask the developer to remove Cursed Ravine just so you will find more partners for an unpopular map. You must not force other players to play with your settings. But that's exactly what you do: . I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

Sorry to sound offensive, but can you maybe say in a few words who you are and since when you are playing the Remake? Are you such a type of player that says "no time no time. F*** host, make 2,0x" and co. only because you can´t manage your time. Thats at least what I can read of your active writing style

For example:

If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

is totaly wrong. They have to adapt to our game speed not to our rules. AND THATS THE POINT: They can´t make compromises. They see 1,5x instead of x2,0 what doesn´t mean anything about, how long the game will actualy take until the end, and leave the lobby.

One more, because I have that good feeling today:

That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants.

I think "no one" or also known as "noone" is not correct here. Just read my text at For example: where they can´t make compromises and it´s not like actualy 1,0x is at least at the top 2 chosen gamespeeds (after that not nice(for many of us) x2,0 speed). So please use other words than noone,just because it doesn´t make totaly sense.

You must not force other players to play with your settings.

Force?
Do I insult them like many others do only because of the speed? You mean "force" because they can´t play 2,5x speed anymore for example? When yes then I have to say, that you didn´t read much on that topic. I already said that it´s a way "what the developers will do, we accept it":=> Not many players came back to KaM/joined KaM BECAUSE OF THE SPEED. And noone will leave it because x2,0 shouldn´t bea avaible but x1,5 and when someone should, that´s his problem. Why? I already told you, the orignal game was made as a relaxing game,not much action/time. So when someone can´t find enough time, he/she can play with less pt or different map types or whatever...

That's bad

Why? Reasons or sth similar maybe? You have also no time but rehost then 20 times per day or having 8 FPS with x2,0 speed and actualy playing like x0,9 speed?

I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

I hope that Krom and Lewin will find a good way to fix the waiting for hours thing. I talked about deleting up to x1,5 or x2,0 not to FORCE everyone to play x1,0. How I know Krom and Lewin they mostly did what the community wanted, also after the community said, it was a "not perfect" changement: Shieldpatch/Buildorder.....gamespeed



Pawel95

[dicsoupcan]

Sorry if I sound offensive, but this thread is no more than whining too little game partners. The point is: if you want to play with others, you have to adopt their rules. If others want to play with you, they have to adopt your rules.

If you're waiting for hours an a lobby, then I feel sorry for you. That's possibly because you want to play something that no one else wants. It's the same as if you choose a map which nobody likes. You don't find partners then. So let it be the current way. Don't ask the developer to remove Cursed Ravine just so you will find more partners for an unpopular map. You must not force other players to play with your settings. But that's exactly what you do: you want to remove speed and set it to x1. That's bad. I hope that Krom does not haste a decision like this.

if we follow your logic we should have never implemented faster speeds in the first place, because if you want to play kam you play it on 1x speed only right?. ever heard of making compromises?

[WhiteWolf]

Imo saying it takes too long is just bs, they rather go play another game for more time actually? Just more rounds... Logic? None!

haha.. funny, not more rounds.. at speed x1 it takes 50-60 min before it gets interesting other games doesn't take that long