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Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

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Krom

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 13:09

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

Veterans are FORCED to play among themselves only if they insist on x1 speed. Why do they have to drag everyone to settings they like anyway? If casual players want to get better at game they know where to go - x1 veteran rooms ;-)

All this game speed topic sounds a bit like radical vegans, that find it their destiny to stop everyone from eating meat .. demanding shops to remove meat products and force everyone to cabbage.

P.S. If I'd played at x1 I would have to quit the game on 40th min because I had to go.
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Ben

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:15

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

I agree with you, Krom, that the arguments here are rather radical. Though I wish I could say that Bence, Bludmaster, etc. were right, I do not think it is wise to remove the game speed increases altogether. I'm more leaning on The Dark Lord's side of the argument: That there are too many options.

I think x2 should be max. :P
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WhiteWolf

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:20

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

True, no argument can break that ;P
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pawel95

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:20

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]


All this game speed topic sounds a bit like radical vegans, that find it their destiny to stop everyone from eating meat .. demanding shops to remove meat products and force everyone to cabbage.
That was an actual topic at the election in Germany where the "Bio" direction wanted to include a day where NO Meat can be eaten in restaurants TOTAL FLOP :mrgreen:

However, no I/We don´t want to stop them by eating meat/playing high speed, but the question is what you mean with the name "Remake" then :?

Let´s look again on it:

I have played tsk the first time when I was maybe 10 years old(2005). Everything was ok I had my polish buged version ok. Later on Tpr came out, I bought it and I was also happy. Then it became boring, no mp/no new misson/ no KaM2!
After I read about the Remake and the first versions were online, I downloaded them its ok. 2013 so like 14 years after the original Game came out, you implemented the GameSpeed-function.

Let´s move over to sth other(I hope its a popular game :P ):

GTA V (You haven´t to play it, but I hope everyone tested a pervious version of it, or at least know that it´s not a car racing game :P ):

Its 2013 nearly all players, that bought their game are happy about it, sure there are some guys that don´t like the "switching between characters" and some others who dislike sth else. It doesn´t matter.

Let´s say Rockstar would have no money(its not really possible, but let´s just think about it), that would be their last GTA game and after some patches would come out, there would be just no support for the players.
10 Years later some intelligent guys set their hobby online and start making a GTA V Remake. Huge number of ex-players would join and download the first version just to have a "new/better" Version of that great game. Everyone is happy. Some months are over and then the developers got a message from 2% from all CURRENT players that they dislike the speed of a car ingame..... They decline it first.... Some years are over and 10% of all CURRENT players wants to have a faster car. Why 10%? Because more "new" players joined who never saw the original game, because they were in the Kindergarden when the game came out(nearly like at kam remake).


Stupid story i know, but the point is: They don´t get what aims has a "Remake" . When they want a faster KaM but never played the original game and just finished their ego shooter and have no money for games(that you have buy for) then they should ask/see for a KaM 2/ GTA VI, even if it´s not possible to get these titles, but a Remake is in my eyes a Remake and that gamespeed changes just the game from the beginning until the pt and up to the end.


A nice quote, that many "randoms" never saw:
"A video game remake is a video game closely adapted from an earlier title, usually for the purpose of modernizing a game for newer hardware and contemporary audiences. Typically, a remake of such game software shares essentially the same title, fundamental gameplay concepts, and core story elements of the original game."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_remake

I won´t comment it too much, because I don´t want to make a topic here what "Remake" exactly means, but the "shares ESSENTIALLY the same [...] fundamental gameplay concepts" is(/are) for me the keyword(s). I don´t saw and see any reason to "speed it up" because Remake of Pokemon weren´t speed up also, they just implemented new gamemodes/scripts to make the "time more interested" nothing else.



Back to your meat. When you wouldn´t implement that "meat" the biggest portion of players would say nothing. The forum came up with lots of things that could be implemented like TH, defending serfs,catapultsvs towers,mutator,... whatever!
However you won´t find a good Remake of an old game, where the whole gameplay is changed , by sth like speeding up the Gametime, which is like the most important thing in the "gameplay".


I agree with you, Krom, that the arguments here are rather radical. Though I wish I could say that Bence, Bludmaster, etc. were right, I do not think it is wise to remove the game speed increases altogether. I'm more leaning on The Dark Lord's side of the argument: That there are too many options.

I think x2 should be max. :P
And? Then all new players(randoms) would make a lobby with x2 and old players would make a lobby with x1, that doesn´t solve the problem?!

Pawel95
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dicsoupcan

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:26

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

The problem of this discussion is that people argue in circles, argue very harsh or in a wrong context. Or they wrote the context they wanted, but someone else took a wrong context out of it. Many valid points have been made in this topic and got ignored. Also the compromise solution of limiting to 2x speed has been ignored while it has been suggested many times. This is where systematic thinking could come in handy, but currently i have no time to visualize the vicious thinking circle that has been going on in this topic. If i have the time i shall try to make it and hopefully clear stuff up.
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Krom

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:32

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

>> However you won´t find a good Remake of an old game, where the whole gameplay is changed , by sth like speeding up the Gametime, which is like the most important thing in the "gameplay".
@Pawel: speedup that was present in TPR is a whole gameplay change? I have no words ...

@Dicsoupcan: I'm leaning towards limiting max speedup to x2 during PT (and for sure after PT). But so far all the veterans arguments stir around "we know better what unskilled players need" and that is not a valid argument at all in a situation where players CAN CHOOSE speed they like.
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pawel95

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:33

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

Well thats quite normal in a big discussion. I hadn´t time to edit my beginner post when I saw that already saw that you have written your post e.g. You can´t stop that. That x2 was a possible solution is clear. I also wrote it at my first post at the beginning of the discussion and Krom´s poll shows that x2 is the most played time :rolleyes: I only don´t see any chances for it ANYMORE because somehow Bludmasters post let me think again and it wouldn´t solve the problem of splitted lobbies + insulting because its x1,0/x1,5 and not x2,0 + changing the core gameplay element of x1,0....
@Pawel: speedup that was present in TPR is a whole gameplay change? I have no words ...
1.) Where? Speedup at multiplayer in TPR? :o
2.) When we asked to implement TH and catapult you argued with "Its a Remake of TSK" now you argue with "was present in TPR" soooooo I don´t understand that thing.
Last edited by pawel95 on 24 Sep 2013, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:34

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

I agree with you, Krom, that the arguments here are rather radical. Though I wish I could say that Bence, Bludmaster, etc. were right, I do not think it is wise to remove the game speed increases altogether. I'm more leaning on The Dark Lord's side of the argument: That there are too many options.

I think x2 should be max. :P
And? Then all new players(randoms) would make a lobby with x2 and old players would make a lobby with x1, that doesn´t solve the problem?!
And what exactly is the problem? That people like playing differently than you?
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pawel95

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:36

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]


And what exactly is the problem? That people like playing differently than you?

what´s the problem? Read that 96 posts over 7 sites and you will find the arguements FOR and AGAINST it, or you think I want to tell you everything again,what like >30 people wrote here? That´s not possible,sorry...
And thats the thing what disco mentioned. When people will just ask "whats wrong" "what is the problem" because they didn´t read the most of that dicussion, then it´s also hard to continue that discussion.
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Krom

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:46

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]


And what exactly is the problem? That people like playing differently than you?

what´s the problem? Read that 96 posts over 7 sites and you will find the arguements FOR and AGAINST it, or you think I want to tell you everything again,what like >30 people wrote here? That´s not possible,sorry...
And thats the thing what disco mentioned. When people will just ask "whats wrong" "what is the problem" because they didn´t read the most of that dicussion, then it´s also hard to continue that discussion.

Maybe you can't reply Ben because there are no solid arguments in defense of "remove speedup" request? *roll_eyes*
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Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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pawel95

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:50

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]


And what exactly is the problem? That people like playing differently than you?

what´s the problem? Read that 96 posts over 7 sites and you will find the arguements FOR and AGAINST it, or you think I want to tell you everything again,what like >30 people wrote here? That´s not possible,sorry...
And thats the thing what disco mentioned. When people will just ask "whats wrong" "what is the problem" because they didn´t read the most of that dicussion, then it´s also hard to continue that discussion.

Maybe you can't reply Ben because there are no solid arguments in defense of "remove speedup" request? *roll_eyes*

roll_eyes you didn´t answered my questions after you had "no words" ::::

Well thats quite normal in a big discussion. I hadn´t time to edit my beginner post when I saw that already saw that you have written your post e.g. You can´t stop that. That x2 was a possible solution is clear. I also wrote it at my first post at the beginning of the discussion and Krom´s poll shows that x2 is the most played time :rolleyes: I only don´t see any chances for it ANYMORE because somehow Bludmasters post let me think again and it wouldn´t solve the problem of splitted lobbies + insulting because its x1,0/x1,5 and not x2,0 + changing the core gameplay element of x1,0....
@Pawel: speedup that was present in TPR is a whole gameplay change? I have no words ...
1.) Where? Speedup at multiplayer in TPR? :o
2.) When we asked to implement TH and catapult you argued with "Its a Remake of TSK" now you argue with "was present in TPR" soooooo I don´t understand that thing.
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dicsoupcan

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:51

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

@Dicsoupcan: I'm leaning towards limiting max speedup to x2 during PT (and for sure after PT). But so far all the veterans arguments stir around "we know better what unskilled players need" and that is not a valid argument at all in a situation where players CAN CHOOSE speed they like.
I am aware that this has been presented as an argument a few times, and this si also a partof the vicious circle this discussion is in. Although it is common knowlegde i prefer to play at 1x speed, i can live with playing a few 2x speed games. 2.5x and 3x speed are an absolute no for me, just because the game becomes unmanagable for me and i want to be in control of the game not the other way around.

However the real problem which has been presented a few times is that gametime has shiftedtowards lobbytime because of the speed discussion in the lobby, causing the lobby to tear apart often. Sure this is mainly a cultural problem withing the playerbase because most people cannot be mature about it, but also what tdl said about the possibillities there are now (25) are too much. this means you have the community slightly divided into 25 groups who prefer their own settings (of which 2x and 2x speed fans are the largest offcourse). With the max 2x speed suggestion it already get's a limit of 9 options as tdl stated earlier which reduces the amount of lobby discussions/problems.

Please do note that although i prefer to play at 1x speed, i do not wish to force everyone to play on 1x speed just because i prefer that. I just want to help (partially) solve the cultural problem by reducing the options there can be argued about.
Last edited by dicsoupcan on 24 Sep 2013, 14:53, edited 1 time in total.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Ben

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 14:52

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]


And what exactly is the problem? That people like playing differently than you?

what´s the problem? Read that 96 posts over 7 sites and you will find the arguements FOR and AGAINST it, or you think I want to tell you everything again,what like >30 people wrote here? That´s not possible,sorry...
And thats the thing what disco mentioned. When people will just ask "whats wrong" "what is the problem" because they didn´t read the most of that dicussion, then it´s also hard to continue that discussion.

Maybe you can't reply Ben because there are no solid arguments in defense of "remove speedup" request? *roll_eyes*
I've said countless times that it would be better to have x2 as max because right now x3 is too many and is unnecessary. However, this topic has gone to crap and nobody is achieving anything by this pointless arguing. People can't even keep track of what is going on in this chaos. Is it time to lock this yet?
I used to spam this forum so much...
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Frone

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 15:10

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

Well ,i knew i couldnt force everyone to play on lower speed and i simply stopped playing.Fighting on 2x is ridiculous . KAM will remain the best strategy game for me ,the fights are amazing and with the right tactic you can win great battles with only half the army of your enemy's.Building the city and having a great economy is so special and cool ,highers speeds just dont let you enjoy it. Too bad more and more games are going down to toilet due to casual players ! Cheers !
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Bence791

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Post 24 Sep 2013, 17:55

Re: Gamespeed + Leaver Discussion [Current problems in KaM]

*Offtopic*
@Frone: This may be helpful: KaMts.eu (TS 3 Server)
Join us ;)
The Kamper is always taking my colour!


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